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Muel07
Hi all

I work for a company that has its training centre at the bottom of a disused airfield which is in the process of being turned into new houses. The construction company (Redrow) has provided a road leading through their construction site down to our training centre, with a 20mph signed speed limit. Today there was a civilian (who also acts as the security guard at the gated entrance) standing on the side of said road in all black, holding a speed gun aiming it at cars leaving the training centre. I was doing approximately 25mph as he pointed the gun at my car. What (if anything) can they do to me? I don't work for Redrow or any associated company and was driving my own personal vehicle.

I've searched the Internet and this forum for something similar but nothing really gives me an answer.

Thanks for the help!

Sam
Logician
If they can persuade the DVLA to give them your details as registered keeper they can write you a snotty letter, and you can tell them where to shove it. I suppose Redrow could refuse to allow you to use their road, provided the agreement they have with your company permits them to do that.
notmeatloaf
If it is a gated road it is not "road to which the public has access". So nothing in criminal law. They could of course report you to your company who have their own disciplinary policy that may make you tea boy for a week if you exceed 24mph.

If they own the land they can make up their own rules could of course attempt to deny you access depending on the agreement they have with your company. But it would seem a bit extreme as you were only exceeding the limit by a small amount.

My money would be that it is a security guard on a power trip and you will hear the grand sum of sod all.
Muel07
Thanks for the replies! Makes me feel a bit better about it all! I was maybe thinking they could fine me some ridiculous amount that they just plucked out of the air or something!
Jlc
Let us know if something does arrive. Sounds like a jobsworth!
southpaw82
Nowhere near Reading was it...? angel2.gif
Muel07
Will keep you updated!

No, up north! wink.gif

So just to confirm, they can't issue me points or a fine?

captain swoop
I visit the huge Wilton Petrochemical site on Teesside to do jobs at several of the plants. Speed limits are enforced by the security staff using a laser device.
Your Reg number is noted as part of your check in and you are issued a 3 month permit for thst vehicle. If you are caught speeding you are given a warning and a marker put on your number. If you are caught again within three months your vehicle is banned from the site.
southpaw82
QUOTE (Muel07 @ Wed, 8 Mar 2017 - 22:34) *
So just to confirm, they can't issue me points or a fine?

In theory the evidence could be used in a prosecution (assuming a speed limit applied on that road). In theory, I could wake up next to Sarah Rafferty. Neither is actually going to happen.
B4295
I've also worked on a few large refineries where the security staff regularly monitor vehicle speeds whilst on site, if you are a persistent offender they will simply stop you from entering the site as you cannot follow their site rules.
notmeatloaf
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 8 Mar 2017 - 23:04) *
QUOTE (Muel07 @ Wed, 8 Mar 2017 - 22:34) *
So just to confirm, they can't issue me points or a fine?

In theory the evidence could be used in a prosecution (assuming a speed limit applied on that road). In theory, I could wake up next to Sarah Rafferty. Neither is actually going to happen.

No because she's at my house tonight.
The Rookie
I know of and have worked at a number of sites where they monitor speed limits, the most common policy is a three strikes one, three (speeding) strikes and you are out (not getting onsite) based on reg number.
StuartBu
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 8 Mar 2017 - 23:04) *
QUOTE (Muel07 @ Wed, 8 Mar 2017 - 22:34) *
So just to confirm, they can't issue me points or a fine?

In theory the evidence could be used in a prosecution (assuming a speed limit applied on that road). In theory, I could wake up next to Sarah Rafferty. Neither is actually going to happen.


More chance of you waking up AS Sarah Rafferty ( whoever she is ) :-)
The Rookie
SP is obviously a fan of US law dramas (She was the redhead in 'Suits')......of course Scarlett J will be most upset she's been replaced as his 'go to' for his simile.
Hellfire8
QUOTE (StuartBu @ Thu, 9 Mar 2017 - 01:49) *
More chance of you waking up AS Sarah Rafferty ( whoever she is ) :-)


Oh she is the most amazing women wink.gif
Unzippy
If you see someone pointing what you think is a gun at you and are scared for your life, feel free to run them over wink.gif
Broadsman
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 8 Mar 2017 - 23:04) *
QUOTE (Muel07 @ Wed, 8 Mar 2017 - 22:34) *
So just to confirm, they can't issue me points or a fine?

In theory the evidence could be used in a prosecution (assuming a speed limit applied on that road). In theory, I could wake up next to Sarah Rafferty. Neither is actually going to happen.


I wanna live in theory, everything seems to work there. biggrin.gif
facade
Back to the original question, the guard could have been monitoring the traffic speed due to some complaints about cars tearing along the road generally endangering the workmen leaning on their shovels.

Complaints like "They all come tearing along the road" are not as difficult to ignore as "25 cars drove long here at above 45mph"
Presumably he has the VRMs of the worst offenders, as to what will be done, likely a warning threatening a ban on access.
southpaw82
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 9 Mar 2017 - 04:31) *
SP is obviously a fan of US law dramas (She was the redhead in 'Suits')......of course Scarlett J will be most upset she's been replaced as his 'go to' for his simile.

Just spreading the love!
Muel07
Thanks for the replies!

I'm going back to the site next Wednesday so I shall let you know if he gives me a telling off or something else!
Ocelot
QUOTE (Muel07 @ Wed, 8 Mar 2017 - 22:34) *
Will keep you updated!

No, up north! wink.gif

So just to confirm, they can't issue me points or a fine?


I assume you mean the authorities? See Sp's answer. Certainly a private company can't 'fine' you, as such.
mickR
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 8 Mar 2017 - 23:04) *
In theory the evidence could be used in a prosecution (assuming a speed limit applied on that road). In theory, I could wake up next to Sarah Rafferty. Neither is actually going to happen.


The second of those, mainly because you have a normal name that can be spelt and understood by most people..... just like her husband! blink.gif
sercoman
I worked at a site.

20 mph speed limit.
1x exceed that and vehicle banned from site, instead had to use offsite to contractors car park. Up to 2 km walk from contractors car park to site.
3x exceed that and driver banned from site (we had pasess recorded so even if your were in a different work van you got banned as a driver).

40 mph on site - gross dismissal staff. Contractors permanent ban (which meant of course dismissal from your contracting company the contract was with that site).
Night shift record down the 1.2 km straight between a rail crossing on site and a right angle bend at a car park before the site road turned in line with the perimeter.....1997 Evo ~ 110mph claimed.
Most "witnesses" called to the inquiry (tyre marks gave the game aware to a vigilant copper) said if it was that fast they'd never have seen it out the small restricted building windows the road went between. Which is entirely true as on that late August night most of the production staff were playing drag racing on that straight so of course no one saw any cars from the windows of the buildings they were supposed to be in because they were not.....
Half_way
It depends upon the site.
The way i've read this is that the OP works at a site at the end of a former airfield, and that to access the workplace there will presumably be a right of access from the public highway, along the airfield road to their premises.
Another company, Redrow Homes has set up at the other end of the site, along the access road.
The question is can Redrow homes impose any additional clauses for use of the access road, could they impose a speed limit on those who have access to the OPs site? could they impose other conditions such as mandatory car share? no more HGV access, would they have the right or ability to ban/exclude those who go through the redrow site, who have no interest or business with Redrow to access the other site?
At another guess the worst they could do is to have a quite word with you and request that you keep to their speed limit, no more. from there it would be up to you weather you agree to their request or ignore it.

Admittedly if you have to drive through another site where you ahev a right of access there is no need to be a prat, the last thing you want is to damage your vehicle/crash into something or even worse into someone else, but on the other hand why should you bow down to a jobsworth for a company to which you have no attachment to.
notmeatloaf
QUOTE (Half_way @ Sun, 12 Mar 2017 - 19:43) *
why should you bow down to a jobsworth for a company to which you have no attachment to.

Because it would be somewhat blase to break the speed limit without knowing what agreement the company has regarding access, and also how sympathetic the OP's company would be to any complaints from Redrow. They may have reasons to keep Redrow "on side".

Same as my employer uses a rubbish PPC to hand out tickets on the site, they are certainly unenforceable if it ever went to court (despite an email assuring us to the contrary) but I don't doubt HR could make your life difficult if they wanted to.
oldstoat
If this is a private road or area and the company who have used the speed camera are in charge of site safety, they are quite within their rights to ban you from the site. Any building site I have ever visited, has H&S rules. ALL state failure to adhere to them will result in a ban from site. So your choice drive at the imposed limit or not, risking banning from site
Fredd
QUOTE (oldstoat @ Tue, 14 Mar 2017 - 15:38) *
If this is a private road or area and the company who have used the speed camera are in charge of site safety, [then] they are quite within their rights to ban you from the site. Any building site I have ever visited, has H&S rules. ALL state failure to adhere to them will result in a ban from site. So your choice drive at the imposed limit or not, risking banning from site

Remains to be seen though, doesn't it?
Muel07
Visited the site again yesterday and nothing was said to me, however there was a different 'security guard' at the gate yesterday. They claim they are 'airport security' although the airfield no longer exists! I'm back again at the weekend and maybe the guard with the speed gun will be there then.
Half_way
Th question is does the new company building the homes have the right to ban someone or impose access rules on a third party person?
The way it reads is that the OP works for Company A,at the end of an old airfield and has to trael along a roadway through the airfield to get to the site, from that it would be easy to make the assumption that there is a right of access across the airfield to the premises.

Company B arrived at the other end, near the entrance and has since imposed a few site rules including a speed limit.
While it would be unwise to break any sensible safety rules, what right does the new company at entrance have to impose new rules amd vary the access terms to its own liking?
Could they for instance bring in a car sharing rule banning all vehicles entering the site with just one occupant, even on those who are not employees at the new site, and only use the road to access their separate site which is nothing to do with redrow homes at the other end of the airfield, just as they did before the builders turned up? Could they stop all access to certain types of vehicle on environmental grounds?
facade
Most likely there is some 'Elf 'n Safety rule about speed on a road through a workplace, which would apply whether you were an employee or not, the only way to ensure the safety of employees would be to ban access to people who won't follow it.

Daresay they could be reported to the Police for their dangerous driving if they refuse, as the RTA would apply to the access road.


There would be nothing about the environment (above what we have already) so the car sharing thing or whether you drive a diesel wouldn't matter.

There must be some control over "right of access" through a workplace surely, you can't just blast through at 120mph scattering workers in all directions.
captain swoop
Does the guard work for the developers or the airfield owners?
Half_way
The issues hinge on right of access, if a pre existing right of access exists along the track road, and a new entity appears, would this new entity be able to vary the rights of access and in effect ban those for whatever reason it chooses? ie, slightly breaching a speed limit, i believe the figure of 25mph over a site with a self imposed limit of 20mph was mentioned

While there is no excuse to drive in a manner that can injure someone, or cause damage what right would the new entity have on imposing arbitrary rules on those who have a pre existing right of way to their own separate site?

If the new entity feels that there is a serious issue, then all they could literalisticly do is to have a word with the manager at the original site and request that vehicles slow down a little.

Its not much differet to a someone insisting that Cyclists passing along a bridle path dismount and push their bikes over their land, or that walkers must keep to the left and so on.
Muel07
I assume he works for the original site owners (calls himself airport security, even though the airport no longer exists). I visited the site again today and absolutely nothing was said, all they seem to do recently is take your name and look at your ID and that's about it. I won't actually need to go back there now for at least another few months, so, in a nutshell - they did nothing.
Fredd
QUOTE (Muel07 @ Sun, 19 Mar 2017 - 14:40) *
I assume he works for the original site owners (calls himself airport security, even though the airport no longer exists).


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