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malyka

TNC Parking Charge Notice PCN and Notice of Intention to issue summons

How best do I appeal for this ticket


Hi all, I'm new to this forum but not new to the ticket appeal process and have previously successfully appealed and won a couple of tickets in 2015 using standard templates I have taylored to my situation, but that was 2 year ago so seeking help incase things have changed.

I received 1st letter PCN letter from TNC Parking Services acting on behalf of RCP Parking Ltd on 19 January 2017 as I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. See links below






As I was not the driver and someone else was, and they’d contacted TNC to advise them to change the name details to them on 25 January and they refused stating DPA, Data protection and advised that I contact them. I then sent them a letter on 25 January advising that I was not the driver and gave them the details of the driver and I also submitted an online webform on TNC’s site advising them of that fact but did not receive a response.

I have now received a 2nd letter Notice Of Intention to Advise Client to Issue Summons letter on 27 February from TNC. I contacted the TNC company by phone on 2 March to find out why I was still receiving letters from them when I had made two attempts via letter and webform to advise them to change the name as I was not the driver. They were extremely rude and refused to do that stating that I did not have proof of notifying the them to that effect and said if I wanted to change the name I must got and pay for a solicitor around £30 to issue an affidavit to change the name to the rightful person as they cannot accept a written letter to that effect to change the name as it would not be admissible in court. I asked what legally prevents them from changing the name now when their original letter asked me to disclose that fact but they were rude and obnoxious in their conduct and said they cannot change it.


1. Please can you advise why I can't change the name as I was not responsible for the car and made attempts to notify them?
2. How best can I challenge this ticket and its disproportionate charges, and not pay it at all, given the frustration, time and inconvenience this has now caused me. We had initially intended to pay the discounted fee but now after dealing with them I'd rather not pay at all.


Background - The car park in question was not managed by anyone for about a year and now it appears this company took over and no clear notices or signage were provided and a ticket was not issued nor displayed on my car and no pictures have been provided in the Notice letters.

Regards

Malyka
Jlc
What a load of old rot. The DPA is one of the most misrepresented acts...

Anyway, you can turn this around.

Simply write to them again giving the name and address of the driver and state that if they continuing processing your details then THEY could be in breach of the DPA as they have no cause!

There's no need for a solicitor etc. to do this.

Any reason why the driver was declared? This should not usually be done unless there's a good reason. Especially since 'keeper liability' didn't seem to apply...

This is the trouble arguing with idiots, they bring you down to their level and win on experience. Never phone them.
ostell
Edit your post so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred. This is most important. Have you already given them the name of who was driving? It would seem so. It makes life harder to stop the payment.

The law allows a parking company to claim the cost of parking from the keeper of the car if they do not know the name of the driver, and you do not have to tell them who was driving. However they have to follow the law completely to allow them to do that. From the letters you posted they have failed to do that. After a parking notice on the windscreen then they have to issue a properly formatted Notice to Keeper within 56 days. With the windscreen notice issued on October 18th then a NTK dated 17th January is well past those 56 days and therefore the keeper, you, can no be held liable for the charge. They also have no court case against you.

You now write to them telling them that they have failed to comply with the requirements of POFA to hold you liable for the charge, namely, but not limited to, issuing the Notice to Keeper in excess of the 56 days required. They must therefore stop writing to you. They must now also remove your details from their records and inform you within 21 days that they have done under section 10 of the DPA. Continuing with this matter is causing distress and harassment.

If a court claim is raised then you reserve the right to issue a counterclaim for the misuse of your data under the DPA. The sum awarded for this would be at least £250.

DO NOT PHONE THEM, EVERYTHING IN WRITING.

EDIT: Even if you believe you have given the drivers name they may have lost it so do not remind them
Jlc
That's the irony - they should be joyous that you want to give the name the driver...!

As they are acting as 'debt collector' their only aim is for you to pay - they don't want to enter into any discussion to resolve matters.
ostell
QUOTE (Jlc @ Sun, 5 Mar 2017 - 14:02) *
As they are acting as 'debt collector' their only aim is for you to pay - they don't want to enter into any discussion to resolve matters.


Missed that! So you send that letter I outlined to RCPP and wait to see what comes back. If you have been communicating with TNC then RCPP might not have got copies of the letters you sent and not have details of the arguments over the phone. Do not say who the driver was!

The only detail to send to RCPP is the PCN number, and your name and address for a return letter. Do not send more personal information than required.

Post your letter here first before posting so that it can be critiqued.
malyka
QUOTE (ostell @ Sun, 5 Mar 2017 - 13:56) *
Edit your post so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred. This is most important. Have you already given them the name of who was driving? It would seem so. It makes life harder to stop the payment.

The law allows a parking company to claim the cost of parking from the keeper of the car if they do not know the name of the driver, and you do not have to tell them who was driving. However they have to follow the law completely to allow them to do that. From the letters you posted they have failed to do that. After a parking notice on the windscreen then they have to issue a properly formatted Notice to Keeper within 56 days. With the windscreen notice issued on October 18th then a NTK dated 17th January is well past those 56 days and therefore the keeper, you, can no be held liable for the charge. They also have no court case against you.

You now write to them telling them that they have failed to comply with the requirements of POFA to hold you liable for the charge, namely, but not limited to, issuing the Notice to Keeper in excess of the 56 days required. They must therefore stop writing to you. They must now also remove your details from their records and inform you within 21 days that they have done under section 10 of the DPA. Continuing with this matter is causing distress and harassment.

If a court claim is raised then you reserve the right to issue a counterclaim for the misuse of your data under the DPA. The sum awarded for this would be at least £250.

DO NOT PHONE THEM, EVERYTHING IN WRITING.

EDIT: Even if you believe you have given the drivers name they may have lost it so do not remind them



Thanks everyone for the prompt and reassuring advice,

Just for check and clarify, based on your advice points, below is a draft letter intend to send, please help revise or correct if necessary.

Thanks

--------------------------------------------
My Address
XXXXX
XXX

XX XXXX 2017

Appeal RE: TNC Parking Services and RCP Parking Limited Parking Charge Notice Number XXXXX

This letter post has been edited by the OP


1. Accept my appeal and remove my details and provide confirmation of that and refrain from sending me further correspondence regarding this matter

or

2. Provide me with a POPLA 10 digit verification code for me to progress this appeal with POPLA.


Signed: Name Surname

Dated: XX Month 2017

----------------------------------------
ostell
Just write to the operator of the car park and not the collection service. That were the instructions in the TNC letter. You don't want RCPP to know about your conversations with TNC.

Pre-estimate of loss went out the window with Beavis. You must be looking at old appeals.

It is not a fine, it is a speculative invoice.

Just say that you did not receive a conforming NTK within the required time.

DON'T MENTION THE DRIVER.

The object at the moment is to receive a POPLA code. Then you hit POPLA with everything.

When you rewrite could you put in paragraph numbers, it makes it easier to comment.
malyka
QUOTE (ostell @ Sun, 5 Mar 2017 - 20:56) *
Just write to the operator of the car park and not the collection service. That were the instructions in the TNC letter. You don't want RCPP to know about your conversations with TNC.

Pre-estimate of loss went out the window with Beavis. You must be looking at old appeals.

It is not a fine, it is a speculative invoice.

Just say that you did not receive a conforming NTK within the required time.

DON'T MENTION THE DRIVER.

The object at the moment is to receive a POPLA code. Then you hit POPLA with everything.

When you rewrite could you put in paragraph numbers, it makes it easier to comment.


Thanks Ostell, how about this revised letter?

Thanks in Advance

[u]Appeal RE: RCP Parking Limited Parking Charge Notice Number XXXXX[/u]

1. As the registered keeper, I am writing to advise you that I do not accept liability of this speculative invoice and legally cannot be held responsible for it because I did not receive a conforming Notice To Keeper within the required time. TNC and RCP Parking Limited have therefore failed to issue a properly formatted Notice to Keeper within 56 days and therefore the keeper, I, can NOT be held liable for the charge and they have no court case against me.

2. As TNC and RCP Parking Limited and have failed to comply with the requirements of POFA to hold me liable for the charge, namely, but not limited to, issuing the Notice to Keeper in excess of the 56 days required and MUST therefore stop writing to me. RCP Parking Limited and TNC must now also remove my details from it’s records and inform me within 21 days that it has been done in accordance to section 10 of the DPA. Please stand notified that continuing to pursue me with this matter is causing distress, ill health and harassment.

I request that you do either of the following options:

1. Accept my appeal and remove my details and provide confirmation of that and refrain from sending me further correspondence regarding this matter

or

2. Provide me with a POPLA 10 digit verification code for me to progress this appeal with POPLA.
Please be aware that if a court claim is raised, then I reserve the right to issue a counterclaim for the misuse of my data under the DPA and they should be aware that the minimum sum awarded to me for this would be at least £250.
ostell
That's probably good, though what I was saying was to not get TNC involved in this as they have been given details of the driver and you hope that the two companies do not talk to each other.
malyka
QUOTE (ostell @ Mon, 6 Mar 2017 - 07:54) *
That's probably good, though what I was saying was to not get TNC involved in this as they have been given details of the driver and you hope that the two companies do not talk to each other.


Great thanks so much! I will send it off and won't involve them.

What's the risk if they do talk, will that still give me liability? Won't the fact still apply that they didn't meet the 56 days?
ostell
If they don't comply with POFA then they can't hold the keeper liable. If they know who the driver was then POFA doesn't matter as they will just chase the driver.
malyka
Hi all, send off my letter as drafted and now received the following response which instills me with Confidence that they have no leg to stand on. They have provided this letter along with pictures evidencing the issue of the ticket displayed on the car, but irregardless I did not receive that ticket as the owner and was not aware of it. They have not provided a Popla code and claim they don't have to comply with POFA.





Please advise how best to challenge and respond to this?

Really appreciate your guys help on this.

Malyka
ostell
Just write back and confirm that you agree with their letter but as you were not the driver on that occasion then not complying with POFA, which they have confirmed, then that means they should be going after the driver.

As they do not have a claim against you, the registered keeper, then you expect your details to be removed from their records within 21 days. Please regard this as a section 10 notice under the DPA. Further communication from them, expect to confirm removal, will be additional harrasment.
SchoolRunMum
Yes but don't name the driver...you don't have to.
malyka
QUOTE (ostell @ Sat, 11 Mar 2017 - 12:48) *
Just write back and confirm that you agree with their letter but as you were not the driver on that occasion then not complying with POFA, which they have confirmed, then that means they should be going after the driver.

As they do not have a claim against you, the registered keeper, then you expect your details to be removed from their records within 21 days. Please regard this as a section 10 notice under the DPA. Further communication from them, expect to confirm removal, will be additional harrasment.



QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Sun, 12 Mar 2017 - 01:03) *
Yes but don't name the driver...you don't have to.


Thanks Ostell and SRM, will do.

QQ, should I still be requesting a popla code or is that irrelevant now seeing as they have no case with me due to POFA?

Thanks
ostell
If they reject then they are supposed to give you a POPLA code without any prompting. See what happens.
Jlc
QUOTE (ostell @ Sun, 12 Mar 2017 - 13:53) *
If they reject then they are supposed to give you a POPLA code without any prompting. See what happens.

They are playing the 'no appeal received within 28 days of the NtD but we've written to the keeper on the vain hope they were driving' game.

No POPLA code will be forthcoming...
malyka
Just a quick update guys, I sent a response to them as advised and they have just gone quiet, whereas they were so quick to respond initially, so I take it they have accepted that they cannot pursue this any further, is that correct?

Also, now TNC, are trying to call me and leaving messages or threatening to take me to court if I don't respond. How do you advise Ideal with then?

Thanks
SchoolRunMum
Email TNC and tell them that they are not to use the phone number xxxxxxxxxxx for texts or calls as it is causing distress to the user of that phone and is considered unwarranted harassment.

Tell them to cease and desist, only to contact you by letter by post (not this email address which is purely used for this single communication to prove receipt). Warn them that failure to adhere to this instruction will be misuse of data and will result in a complaint to the Information Commissioner, as well as a potential claim against their client for damages for harassment since no POPLA code was ever provided and the client has already been informed that the keeper was not the driver.

Therefore it is already established that there is no claim against you which could be supported by any applicable law and this harassing contact with demands for money from a rogue debt collector is unacceptable in law, the authority for which is Ferguson v British Gas.

Add a read receipt and send a copy to yourself to prove sending actually occurred.
malyka
Great! will do.

cheers SRM..
malyka
Hey guys, just wanted to confirm that I did as you guys advised, couldn't email TNC as they had no email, I just ignored their calls, saved the number they rang from so just ignored them for about a 2 weeks and they gave up. Either that or they eventually spoke spoke to RCP and found out that this case wasn't worth pursuing any further.

Either way, just wanted to thank you guys for all advice. Much appreciated. biggrin.gif

Malyka
cabbyman
Keep ALL the paperwork just in case they wake up later!
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