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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
droopydrew
Firstly thanks for talking the time to read this, I feel a bit shaken and really looking for an external view of my situation..

- 07 Nov, received a NIP for an alleged speeding offence (36 mph on a 30 mph limit road, Edge Lane Drive (eastbound) by automatic camera). Alleged offence occurred on 10 Sep.
- 17 Nov, responded using an online template stating that the date on the NIP was outside the 14-day limit and I request it to be withdrawn.
- 23 Nov, received a letter stating that the NIP was collected from the premises within the 14-day to the address according to DVLA.
- 16 Jan, responded stating that the dates indicated that the 7 Nov was outside the 14-days and was deemed time barred.
- 26 Jan, received note that the logbook is registered to a different address at the time of the offence, and was issued within the 14-days. Attached another copy of the NIP to my current address which was dated 7 Nov.
- 30 Jan, responded referring to the copied NIP dated 7 Nov saying it was outside the 14-days and was deemed time barred.
- 07 Feb, received note that they used the DVLA address and attached another copy of a NIP, but this time to my previous address, NIP dated 13 Sep.
- 09 Feb, requested information from the DVLA about my previous addresses and dates registered.
- 15 Feb, received confirmation from DVLA that my address change had been processed two days prior to the alleged offence.
- 17 Feb, responded to the police saying I didn't believe the copied NIP could be legit as the DVLA processed my address change two days prior to the alleged offence. I sent copy of my DVLA document and requested an explanation of how they got my previous address when DVLA updated my records.
- 25 Feb, received note from police saying that the DVLA can take a couple of weeks to update their records. Also as I haven't completed the NIP within the 28days, the matter has now been referred to the courts.

There was a lot of back and forth to begin with until they actually sent a copied version of the NIP to my old address which I knew I had changed my address.

I believe I was within my rights to contend the NIP up until 7 Feb as they hadn't provided any evidence it was sent to another address.
I believe I was within my rights to challenge the copied NIP to my old address as I knew I had updated my details before the 10 Sep.

I can understand the argument that systems do take time to update, but that should not be for me to be aware of and consider with my above two points.
Given all the evidence that they provided, I now believe the original NIP to be sent within the 14-days, but I was only satisfied as of 25 Feb, which is 28 days after the original NIP.

Do I have a leg to stand on to firstly challenge that the NIP wasn't issued correctly, using my updated address within 14days Therefore time-barred?
Failing that...
Do I have a leg to stand on to accept the NIP, 3 points and smaller fine?

I already have 3 points, 32 and no other convictions.
BaggieBoy
Have you ever named yourself as the driver?
Jlc
Firstly get your v5 and what's the date (in DD MM YY format) at the bottom of page 2 after 'Doc Ref No'?
droopydrew
No I never did - on the basis that I didn't deem the NIP lawful.
Jlc
QUOTE (droopydrew @ Wed, 1 Mar 2017 - 19:38) *
No I never did - on the basis that I didn't deem the NIP lawful.

Whoops. Even if the NIP was 'late' the s172 request must not be ignored.
Kickaha
If you have not named yourself as the driver all of details become largely immaterial, as the charge will be failing to provide.
droopydrew
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 1 Mar 2017 - 19:37) *
Firstly get your v5 and what's the date (in DD MM YY format) at the bottom of page 2 after 'Doc Ref No'?


V5 Doc dated 31/03/15 when I requested address changed.
V5 Doc dated 15/09/16 after address changed.
Jlc
QUOTE (Kickaha @ Wed, 1 Mar 2017 - 19:42) *
If you have not named yourself as the driver all of details become largely immaterial, as the charge will be failing to provide.

Hopefully, they will 'dual charge' and the possibility of a 'plea bargain'. (Moreso if the NIP wasn't 'late')

QUOTE (droopydrew @ Wed, 1 Mar 2017 - 19:43) *
V5 Doc dated 15/09/16 after address changed.

So for an offence occurring on the 10/09/16 the previous address will likely be returned. I presume you did not have any redirection in place?
The Rookie
A little knowledge is more dangerous than none at all......
You don't get to decide if it's properly served or not, you persuade a court.
The section172 request requiring the driver to be named is a separate legal document even if it's on the same sheet of paper and is unaffected by any timescales, and no you weren't within your rights.

You could try phoning them and admitting abject daftness and seeing if they will process a late responce, if nit you'll have to wait for the court information when you may be able to do a deal and plead guilty to the speeding.
droopydrew
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 1 Mar 2017 - 19:45) *
So for an offence occurring on the 10/09/16 the previous address will likely be returned. I presume you did not have any redirection in place?


Correct, no postal redirection, that is why I was adamant with my stance.
andy_foster
edit: Everybody else seems to have beaten me to it...

Failure to comply with the requirements of s. 1 RTOA 1988 (subject to the exceptions contained within s. 2) is a bar to conviction for the substantive speeding offence. It does not explicitly provide a defence to an offence under s. 172 RTA 1988. S. 1 provides that the requirements are deemed to have been complied with unless proven otherwise.

The general consensus is that a failure to serve a NIP on the driver or RK within the 14 days does not negate any s. 172 obligation or offence. I would qualify that by saying that only where the failure was so blatant and obvious that pursuing it would constitute an abuse of process, could it be considered a defence. Unless you can prove that they were d*cking around with a John Bull printing kit and forged the original NIP, this ain't gonna fly.

I will make the obvious comment that you have thrown yourself headlong into a course of action and then only when the die is cast sought advice. This is generally considered foolish, but now that that has been stated, there is no need for other posters to comment further in that regard.

Dig out your V5C. Find the DocRef. No. at the bottom of page 2. Look at the date after that number. This should be the date that the DVLA actually updated the details. Whilst this might not help defending an s. 172 charge, it might help you understand whether or not one of your earlier assumptions was correct.

They have 6 months from the date of the speeding offence to instigate proceedings for that offence, so it is vanishingly unlikely that they would accept an s. 172 response at this stage [and issue a COFP], although it wouldn't hurt to ask. Alternatively, your best hope is that they dual charge (speeding as well as the inevitable s. 172) and you can do a deal with the prosecutor to drop the s 172 if you plead guilty to the speeding.
Jlc
QUOTE (droopydrew @ Wed, 1 Mar 2017 - 19:47) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 1 Mar 2017 - 19:45) *
So for an offence occurring on the 10/09/16 the previous address will likely be returned. I presume you did not have any redirection in place?

Correct, no postal redirection, that is why I was adamant with my stance.

Not sure what you mean - the NIP went to your old address initially which is quite correct and it wasn't redirected. This doesn't help you.

But given that you appear to have committed a s172 offence (6 points, c£500+ fine) then you can try the advice above but if they say it's too late then you need to hope they have dual charged. (They don't always)
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