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Angelique
Hi I've been caught on camera stopping in the box junction on the above corner on the kingston one way system. This is the 2nd time this has happened to me. Since the last occurrence I have been so vigilant in preventing this happening again however it's virtually impossible as the box junction is on a bend so you have no clear view whether the traffic is free flowing ahead of you.
I appealed on these grounds the last time and I still lost. I then just paid the fine and took it no further.
Does anyone have any advice or should I just pay?
Thank you
peterguk
Press "report" and ask a mod to move your post to the correct forum.
BaggieBoy
QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 19 Feb 2017 - 09:30) *
Press "report" and ask a mod to move your post to the correct forum.

Which is "Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices".
John U.K.
QUOTE (Angelique @ Sun, 19 Feb 2017 - 09:12) *
Hi I've been caught on camera stopping in the box junction on the above corner on the kingston one way system. This is the 2nd time this has happened to me. Since the last occurrence I have been so vigilant in preventing this happening again however it's virtually impossible as the box junction is on a bend so you have no clear view whether the traffic is free flowing ahead of you.
I appealed on these grounds the last time and I still lost. I then just paid the fine and took it no further.
Does anyone have any advice or should I just pay?
Thank you


As usual, for best advice please post up PCN (both sides) and if possible a link to the video. You must see the video.

Do not attach docs/photos, but use this method:
Photo or scan. see http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858&st=0
for how to do it. I use Tinypic for stage 2 with no problems.
STAGE 1 takes care of resizing. If you use Tinypic for Stage 2, on the left each image in Tinypic is a list of links. Highlight and copy the entire link 'for forums' from the list for each image - beginning with IMG and ending /IMG (include all the square brackets [] }, and paste each link into your post. Each copied and pasted link will embed a thumbnail link in your post.

Using the attachment method is not advised as it means quickly running out of attachment space.
Redact/obscure personal details, PCN no. Reg No.

Also post up a GSV (Google Street View) link to the location.
LEAVE IN all dates/times; precise location, Contravention code and description.
Angelique
Ok thank you. I've asked for this to be moved to the correct forum.
Sorry I'm completey new to this when you say upload the PCN do you mean scan the letter from the council and upload to this page?
John U.K.
QUOTE
Ok thank you. I've asked for this to be moved to the correct forum.
Sorry I'm completey new to this when you say upload the PCN do you mean scan the letter from the council and upload to this page?


Scan or photograph every side of the PCN. If you are unable edit the resulting image then first photocopy the PCN then redact (cross out , tippex, or use judiciously placed scraps of paper to obscure personal details and Reg.& PCN numbers) and scan/photo the redacted document.

Then follow the process in my previous post #4.
stamfordman
Recent thread:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t110374.html
Angelique
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=t5pseu&s=9

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=inec7n&s=9
My car is the Nissan Qashqai. My issue is that how can I possibly see the status of the box junction from a blind spot round a bend?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
astralite
You can assess its status as you approach but that said this is a very awkward YBJ which makes a lot of money for Kingston. The traffic ahead can stop suddenly not only by buses pulling out, or pedestrians running across the road, but by vehicles reversing into or out of Nipper Alley onto the one way system. We need to see the video and to know how long your vehicle was stationary.
There are other cases re this box and you can find some of them by putting Clarence Street into the search facility.
A few appeals have been successful on location and others on de minimis.
Incandescent
Essentially the council won't give way, they think you have an ability to see through bricks and concrete, so you'd have to go to London Tribunals if you want to try winning this. Trouble is you'll lose the discount option if you do. It's a tough call, but sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. The whole system is designed to stop people appealing.
Angelique
QUOTE (astralite @ Sun, 19 Feb 2017 - 19:40) *
You can assess its status as you approach but that said this is a very awkward YBJ which makes a lot of money for Kingston. The traffic ahead can stop suddenly not only by buses pulling out, or pedestrians running across the road, but by vehicles reversing into or out of Nipper Alley onto the one way system. We need to see the video and to know how long your vehicle was stationary.
There are other cases re this box and you can find some of them by putting Clarence Street into the search facility.
A few appeals have been successful on location and others on de minimis.


Thank you for your comments. It's such a money making box junction!
I've been trying to upload the video but to no avail. Do you know how to do it please?
stamfordman
QUOTE (Angelique @ Sun, 19 Feb 2017 - 20:30) *
I've been trying to upload the video but to no avail. Do you know how to do it please?


You need to host it on Youtube or another video site and link to it from here.
Angelique
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Sun, 19 Feb 2017 - 20:09) *
Essentially the council won't give way, they think you have an ability to see through bricks and concrete, so you'd have to go to London Tribunals if you want to try winning this. Trouble is you'll lose the discount option if you do. It's a tough call, but sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. The whole system is designed to stop people appealing.


I know I'm worried I'll just lose and be stuck with paying £130! It's a tough call. If it was a straight road with a box junction I could understand why I received a fine, but one just past a bend where you can't foresee the traffic ahead is extremely unjust!

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sun, 19 Feb 2017 - 15:49) *

Thank you!
Angelique
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sun, 19 Feb 2017 - 20:32) *
QUOTE (Angelique @ Sun, 19 Feb 2017 - 20:30) *
I've been trying to upload the video but to no avail. Do you know how to do it please?


You need to host it on Youtube or another video site and link to it from here.

Sorry I'm not very technical. I can't even seem to download it from the kingston site. Am I missing something?
astralite
QUOTE (Angelique @ Sun, 19 Feb 2017 - 20:46) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sun, 19 Feb 2017 - 20:32) *
QUOTE (Angelique @ Sun, 19 Feb 2017 - 20:30) *
I've been trying to upload the video but to no avail. Do you know how to do it please?


You need to host it on Youtube or another video site and link to it from here.

Sorry I'm not very technical. I can't even seem to download it from the kingston site. Am I missing something?

I'm not techy either. Maybe one of the others can help. Seeing the video will be essential. In the meantime could you post the date and exact times shown on the photos - I cant read these on my small screen.
stamfordman
Angelique asked me to post the video

https://viewmypcn.co.uk/PlayingFootage/6609...2002a54a680.mp4

Incandescent
I made it about 6-7 seconds stopped, on the margin for de minimis, but worth mentioning if you're in front of an adjudicator, and combined with lack of visibility argument might win. Councils don't recognise de minimis; if you're stopped for a nano-second a PCN will be issued.
Angelique
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 21 Feb 2017 - 17:38) *


Thank you so much 😁👍

QUOTE (Incandescent @ Tue, 21 Feb 2017 - 18:21) *
I made it about 6-7 seconds stopped, on the margin for de minimis, but worth mentioning if you're in front of an adjudicator, and combined with lack of visibility argument might win. Councils don't recognise de minimis; if you're stopped for a nano-second a PCN will be issued.


Thank you. I'm guessing I appeal. The council will reject it and then this goes to tribunal?
In your experience do you think it's wiser and also more cost effective to pay it at this stage to prevent the risk of the fine doubling?
I guess I'm wondering whether I have any sort of hope in winning this at tribunal?
Many thanks in advance
Angelique
stamfordman
There is also a case that councils should use discretion when a driver moving across the junction has a reasonable expectation that there will be room - e.g. when two cars occupy three spaces after the box. It looks to me like the car you stopped behind had room to move further, at least.

This factor is stated for example in a Hammersmith and Fulham document I found the other day.
Incandescent
QUOTE (Angelique @ Tue, 21 Feb 2017 - 18:53) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 21 Feb 2017 - 17:38) *


Thank you so much

QUOTE (Incandescent @ Tue, 21 Feb 2017 - 18:21) *
I made it about 6-7 seconds stopped, on the margin for de minimis, but worth mentioning if you're in front of an adjudicator, and combined with lack of visibility argument might win. Councils don't recognise de minimis; if you're stopped for a nano-second a PCN will be issued.


Thank you. I'm guessing I appeal. The council will reject it and then this goes to tribunal?
In your experience do you think it's wiser and also more cost effective to pay it at this stage to prevent the risk of the fine doubling?
I guess I'm wondering whether I have any sort of hope in winning this at tribunal?


Many thanks in advance
Angelique

You have a hope of winning if you can demonstrate the exit to the YBJ cannot be seen from the entry point. Looking at the video, this would seem certain if one is in the right hand lane, but you were in the middle lane so there may be some doubt. Sometimes adjudicators have actually made site visits to determine the issue, and the council have subsequently lost as the exit was not visible !! Your appeal to the council needs to concentrate on this issue as their reply will probably determine whether you win or lose at LT.

Can you give us a GSV just before the junction so we can "drive" it ourselves and hopefully give an opinion. NoO point in risking an extra £65 if the case is hopeless.
John U.K.
QUOTE
You have a hope of winning if you can demonstrate the exit to the YBJ cannot be seen from the entry point. Looking at the video, this would seem certain if one is in the right hand lane,


Would a video from a dash-cam camera or mobile-phone (held by passenger) be admisible if OP can re-trace route?
stamfordman
This is the GSV:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.410721,-0...3312!8i6656

There is a similar yellow box junction just before as well.
Angelique
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Tue, 21 Feb 2017 - 19:32) *
QUOTE (Angelique @ Tue, 21 Feb 2017 - 18:53) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 21 Feb 2017 - 17:38) *


Thank you so much ������������

QUOTE (Incandescent @ Tue, 21 Feb 2017 - 18:21) *
I made it about 6-7 seconds stopped, on the margin for de minimis, but worth mentioning if you're in front of an adjudicator, and combined with lack of visibility argument might win. Councils don't recognise de minimis; if you're stopped for a nano-second a PCN will be issued.


Thank you. I'm guessing I appeal. The council will reject it and then this goes to tribunal?
In your experience do you think it's wiser and also more cost effective to pay it at this stage to prevent the risk of the fine doubling?
I guess I'm wondering whether I have any sort of hope in winning this at tribunal?


Many thanks in advance
Angelique

You have a hope of winning if you can demonstrate the exit to the YBJ cannot be seen from the entry point. Looking at the video, this would seem certain if one is in the right hand lane, but you were in the middle lane so there may be some doubt. Sometimes adjudicators have actually made site visits to determine the issue, and the council have subsequently lost as the exit was not visible !! Your appeal to the council needs to concentrate on this issue as their reply will probably determine whether you win or lose at LT.

Can you give us a GSV just before the junction so we can "drive" it ourselves and hopefully give an opinion. NoO point in risking an extra £65 if the case is hopeless.


Hi thanks for your email. Forgive my ignorance but what does GSV stand for?


QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 21 Feb 2017 - 20:16) *
This is the GSV:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.410721,-0...3312!8i6656

There is a similar yellow box junction just before as well.



Thank you just seen this GSV .... I now understand. I honestly don't think it is possible to see traffic on 2nd box junction before it's too late. sad.gif
Rob232
Surely the OP and the car in front were both doing a right turn? The car in front had not completed the right turn.
"(2) The prohibition in sub-paragraph (1) does not apply to any person -

(a) who causes a vehicle to enter the box junction (other than a box junction at a roundabout) for the purpose of turning right; and

(b) stops it within the box junction for so long as it is prevented from completing the right turn by oncoming vehicles or other vehicles which are stationary whilst waiting to complete a right turn."

Neil B
QUOTE (Rob232 @ Wed, 22 Feb 2017 - 00:51) *
Surely the OP and the car in front were both doing a right turn? The car in front had not completed the right turn.
"(2) The prohibition in sub-paragraph (1) does not apply to any person -

(a) who causes a vehicle to enter the box junction (other than a box junction at a roundabout) for the purpose of turning right; and

(b) stops it within the box junction for so long as it is prevented from completing the right turn by oncoming vehicles or other vehicles which are stationary whilst waiting to complete a right turn."

No, they were both continuing straight on (on the route).
There is no right turn available.

May I suggest you examine the purpose and reason for the exemption you cite.

astralite
This is part of Kingston’s one way system. The five sided YBJ is on a right handed bend directly after traffic lights and a pedestrian crossing. The right hand lane is the shortest. Most stoppages occur in the middle lane or in the left hand lane which is the longest. As can be seen at the end of the video after clearing the box from the right hand lane quite a few drivers (e.g. the white car) manoeuvre into the middle lane. Drivers in the left hand lane have the longest stretch of box. They, and sometimes those in the middle lane, are often brought to a halt when vehicles reversing in or out from ‘concealed’ service entrances on the left hand side stop the flow of traffic. This is as well as buses pulling out, pedestrians trying their luck etc. The video shows none of this – indeed it carefully shows virtually nothing of the road ahead.

The box is not a on a junction with Wheatfield Way. It’s just on Clarence Street at a point where that road was modified in triangular fashion to provide a pedestrian island and crossing, a cycle crossing, and a bus slip road. The box is not at 21 Clarence Street as might be supposed from the video and photos. It is in the vicinity of 146-152 Clarence Street on one side and 143 - 145 Clarence Street on the other.

Wheatfield Way ends and merges into Clarence Street just before the Old London Road. Wheatfield Way has its own boxes. stamfordman points one of them out on the GSV - google image - that at the junction of Wheatfield Way with Fairfield North and Weston Park.

As no seconds are shown, the alleged contravention appears to happen later than the time noted on the PCN.
astralite
QUOTE (astralite @ Wed, 22 Feb 2017 - 23:42) *
This is part of Kingston’s one way system. The five sided YBJ is on a right handed bend directly after traffic lights and a pedestrian crossing. The right hand lane is the shortest. Most stoppages occur in the middle lane or in the left hand lane which is the longest. As can be seen at the end of the video after clearing the box from the right hand lane quite a few drivers (e.g. the white car) manoeuvre into the middle lane. Drivers in the left hand lane have the longest stretch of box. They, and sometimes those in the middle lane, are often brought to a halt when vehicles reversing in or out from ‘concealed’ service entrances on the left hand side stop the flow of traffic. This is as well as buses pulling out, pedestrians trying their luck etc. The video shows none of this – indeed it carefully shows virtually nothing of the road ahead.

The box is not a on a junction with Wheatfield Way. It’s just on Clarence Street at a point where that road was modified in triangular fashion to provide a pedestrian island and crossing, a cycle crossing, and a bus slip road. The box is not at 21 Clarence Street as might be supposed from the video and photos. It is in the vicinity of 146-152 Clarence Street on one side and 143 - 145 Clarence Street on the other.

Wheatfield Way ends and merges into Clarence Street just before the Old London Road. Wheatfield Way has its own boxes. stamfordman points one of them out on the GSV - google image - that at the junction of Wheatfield Way with Fairfield North and Weston Park.

As no seconds are shown, the alleged contravention appears to happen later than the time noted on the PCN.


To add to my points above:
The Clarence Street box is not on the point/junction where Wheatfield Way meets/ merges into Clarence Street.
See 2160509189: A box junction must be placed at the junction of two or more roads. I've put a copy of this case about Ewell Road Surbiton on Hippocrates's thread of list of cases to assist arguments.

Angelique
QUOTE (astralite @ Thu, 23 Feb 2017 - 14:52) *
QUOTE (astralite @ Wed, 22 Feb 2017 - 23:42) *
This is part of Kingston’s one way system. The five sided YBJ is on a right handed bend directly after traffic lights and a pedestrian crossing. The right hand lane is the shortest. Most stoppages occur in the middle lane or in the left hand lane which is the longest. As can be seen at the end of the video after clearing the box from the right hand lane quite a few drivers (e.g. the white car) manoeuvre into the middle lane. Drivers in the left hand lane have the longest stretch of box. They, and sometimes those in the middle lane, are often brought to a halt when vehicles reversing in or out from ‘concealed’ service entrances on the left hand side stop the flow of traffic. This is as well as buses pulling out, pedestrians trying their luck etc. The video shows none of this – indeed it carefully shows virtually nothing of the road ahead.

The box is not a on a junction with Wheatfield Way. It’s just on Clarence Street at a point where that road was modified in triangular fashion to provide a pedestrian island and crossing, a cycle crossing, and a bus slip road. The box is not at 21 Clarence Street as might be supposed from the video and photos. It is in the vicinity of 146-152 Clarence Street on one side and 143 - 145 Clarence Street on the other.

Wheatfield Way ends and merges into Clarence Street just before the Old London Road. Wheatfield Way has its own boxes. stamfordman points one of them out on the GSV - google image - that at the junction of Wheatfield Way with Fairfield North and Weston Park.

As no seconds are shown, the alleged contravention appears to happen later than the time noted on the PCN.


To add to my points above:
The Clarence Street box is not on the point/junction where Wheatfield Way meets/ merges into Clarence Street.
See 2160509189: A box junction must be placed at the junction of two or more roads. I've put a copy of this case about Ewell Road Surbiton on Hippocrates's thread of list of cases to assist arguments.



Wow this is such good news. I'm about to write an appeal letter to the council. Thank you for all your help. I'll keep you posted!
astralite
QUOTE (Angelique @ Fri, 24 Feb 2017 - 14:09) *
QUOTE (astralite @ Thu, 23 Feb 2017 - 14:52) *
QUOTE (astralite @ Wed, 22 Feb 2017 - 23:42) *
This is part of Kingston’s one way system. The five sided YBJ is on a right handed bend directly after traffic lights and a pedestrian crossing. The right hand lane is the shortest. Most stoppages occur in the middle lane or in the left hand lane which is the longest. As can be seen at the end of the video after clearing the box from the right hand lane quite a few drivers (e.g. the white car) manoeuvre into the middle lane. Drivers in the left hand lane have the longest stretch of box. They, and sometimes those in the middle lane, are often brought to a halt when vehicles reversing in or out from ‘concealed’ service entrances on the left hand side stop the flow of traffic. This is as well as buses pulling out, pedestrians trying their luck etc. The video shows none of this – indeed it carefully shows virtually nothing of the road ahead.

The box is not a on a junction with Wheatfield Way. It’s just on Clarence Street at a point where that road was modified in triangular fashion to provide a pedestrian island and crossing, a cycle crossing, and a bus slip road. The box is not at 21 Clarence Street as might be supposed from the video and photos. It is in the vicinity of 146-152 Clarence Street on one side and 143 - 145 Clarence Street on the other.

Wheatfield Way ends and merges into Clarence Street just before the Old London Road. Wheatfield Way has its own boxes. stamfordman points one of them out on the GSV - google image - that at the junction of Wheatfield Way with Fairfield North and Weston Park.

As no seconds are shown, the alleged contravention appears to happen later than the time noted on the PCN.


To add to my points above:
The Clarence Street box is not on the point/junction where Wheatfield Way meets/ merges into Clarence Street.
See 2160509189: A box junction must be placed at the junction of two or more roads. I've put a copy of this case about Ewell Road Surbiton on Hippocrates's thread of list of cases to assist arguments.



Wow this is such good news. I'm about to write an appeal letter to the council. Thank you for all your help. I'll keep you posted!


Suggest you get your draft ready asap. Don't delay. Its very important not to miss deadlines - and I cant see the date of issue on your PCN. There are number of arguments that could be made. Some of them would be best backed up with photos/maps. Also did you think about a dashcam recording?


Angelique
QUOTE (astralite @ Fri, 24 Feb 2017 - 15:09) *
QUOTE (Angelique @ Fri, 24 Feb 2017 - 14:09) *
QUOTE (astralite @ Thu, 23 Feb 2017 - 14:52) *
QUOTE (astralite @ Wed, 22 Feb 2017 - 23:42) *
This is part of Kingston’s one way system. The five sided YBJ is on a right handed bend directly after traffic lights and a pedestrian crossing. The right hand lane is the shortest. Most stoppages occur in the middle lane or in the left hand lane which is the longest. As can be seen at the end of the video after clearing the box from the right hand lane quite a few drivers (e.g. the white car) manoeuvre into the middle lane. Drivers in the left hand lane have the longest stretch of box. They, and sometimes those in the middle lane, are often brought to a halt when vehicles reversing in or out from ‘concealed’ service entrances on the left hand side stop the flow of traffic. This is as well as buses pulling out, pedestrians trying their luck etc. The video shows none of this – indeed it carefully shows virtually nothing of the road ahead.

The box is not a on a junction with Wheatfield Way. It’s just on Clarence Street at a point where that road was modified in triangular fashion to provide a pedestrian island and crossing, a cycle crossing, and a bus slip road. The box is not at 21 Clarence Street as might be supposed from the video and photos. It is in the vicinity of 146-152 Clarence Street on one side and 143 - 145 Clarence Street on the other.

Wheatfield Way ends and merges into Clarence Street just before the Old London Road. Wheatfield Way has its own boxes. stamfordman points one of them out on the GSV - google image - that at the junction of Wheatfield Way with Fairfield North and Weston Park.

As no seconds are shown, the alleged contravention appears to happen later than the time noted on the PCN.


To add to my points above:
The Clarence Street box is not on the point/junction where Wheatfield Way meets/ merges into Clarence Street.
See 2160509189: A box junction must be placed at the junction of two or more roads. I've put a copy of this case about Ewell Road Surbiton on Hippocrates's thread of list of cases to assist arguments.



Wow this is such good news. I'm about to write an appeal letter to the council. Thank you for all your help. I'll keep you posted!


Suggest you get your draft ready asap. Don't delay. Its very important not to miss deadlines - and I cant see the date of issue on your PCN. There are number of arguments that could be made. Some of them would be best backed up with photos/maps. Also did you think about a dashcam recording?





Hi All

The Appeal to the council is due in tomorrow.

THE draft i am thinking of sending is below. If anyone could help at all that would be much appreciated. Thank you
I am appealing this PCN for the following reasons;
• The video evidence demonstrates that it was impossible for me to see from approach due to the bend that the black Porsche in the inside right hand lane cut in front of the car in front of me without indicating. This could not have been anticipated. This in turn caused there to be insufficient room for my vehicle to be clear of the box junction. If the black Porsche continued in their own lane there would have been plenty of room for me to be clear of the box junction which is what I had anticipated.
• Having looked at google street view (attached) you can clearly see that the yellow box junction cannot be seen clearly from the point of entry as it is situated on a bend and not on a straight road. What also is not clear are the following instances which can occur which again cannot be seen on approach. These are the fact that traffic can stop suddenly due to buses pulling out, cars changing lanes, pedestrians running across the road and also vehicles reversing into and out of Nipper Alley onto the one way system.
• The PCN states Clarence Street : Junction with Wheatfield Way. The box is not actually on a junction with Wheatfield Way it is just on Clarence Street. A box junction is supposed to be placed at the junction of two or more roads.
• On the margin for De Minimis I estimate that I was on the yellow box junction for approximately 7 seconds. Combined with the lack of visibility on approach and taking into account the risk factors mentioned above which can stop the traffic I look forward to receiving confirmation that this PCN has been cancelled.

Neil B
QUOTE (Angelique @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 15:39) *
The Appeal to the council is due in tomorrow.

Is it?
Neil B
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 15:54) *
QUOTE (Angelique @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 15:39) *
The Appeal to the council is due in tomorrow.

Is it?

I mean we can't confirm that for you as we don't have the date of the notice.
Angelique
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 19:22) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 15:54) *
QUOTE (Angelique @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 15:39) *
The Appeal to the council is due in tomorrow.

Is it?

I mean we can't confirm that for you as we don't have the date of the notice.



Don't worry Neil. I was not asking for confirmation of when the appeal deadline is as I already know it's tomorrow.
I was asking for support help with my draft and I was stating that it's due in tomorrow.
Neil B
QUOTE (Angelique @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 20:00) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 19:22) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 15:54) *
QUOTE (Angelique @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 15:39) *
The Appeal to the council is due in tomorrow.

Is it?

I mean we can't confirm that for you as we don't have the date of the notice.



Don't worry Neil. I was not asking for confirmation of when the appeal deadline is as I already know it's tomorrow.
I was asking for support help with my draft and I was stating that it's due in tomorrow.

Ok; I tried.
astralite
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 20:45) *
QUOTE (Angelique @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 20:00) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 19:22) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 15:54) *
QUOTE (Angelique @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 15:39) *
The Appeal to the council is due in tomorrow.

Is it?

I mean we can't confirm that for you as we don't have the date of the notice.



Don't worry Neil. I was not asking for confirmation of when the appeal deadline is as I already know it's tomorrow.
I was asking for support help with my draft and I was stating that it's due in tomorrow.

Ok; I tried.

I think there’s too much emphasis on what can’t be seen. However, the video is very short and is not recorded from the driver’s perspective. You could submit your representation and see what they say. If the discount is re-offered you could then consider the options. I wouldn’t include the seconds count. At adjudication whereas a few which were longer have been allowed, there are several recent examples at this junction of stops of three seconds having been refused.
Angelique
QUOTE (astralite @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 21:11) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 20:45) *
QUOTE (Angelique @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 20:00) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 19:22) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 15:54) *
QUOTE (Angelique @ Sun, 26 Feb 2017 - 15:39) *
The Appeal to the council is due in tomorrow.

Is it?

I mean we can't confirm that for you as we don't have the date of the notice.



Don't worry Neil. I was not asking for confirmation of when the appeal deadline is as I already know it's tomorrow.
I was asking for support help with my draft and I was stating that it's due in tomorrow.

Ok; I tried.

I think there’s too much emphasis on what can’t be seen. However, the video is very short and is not recorded from the driver’s perspective. You could submit your representation and see what they say. If the discount is re-offered you could then consider the options. I wouldn’t include the seconds count. At adjudication whereas a few which were longer have been allowed, there are several recent examples at this junction of stops of three seconds having been refused.




Thank you All! Happy Monday!
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