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kate_george
Hi All,

I'm hoping somebody may be able to give me some advice and help re: appeals.

New World Facilities East Essex have recently taken over the parking enforcement for my apartment parking area. (Each apartment has a designated spot) and since the start of January I have now received 3 PCNs. I have noticed two other threads that have previously had tickets from this company.

1. At the beginning of the month I received a PCN which stated I wasn't clearly displaying a valid permit. However, the location stated on the PCN that I was parked in a different apartment buildings lot (I wasn't). As it was a new contract for the company, I thought they had made a mistake and hadn't realised that the permits could be different. I appealed this ticket and got it rejected yesterday. I would like to appeal to POPLA, but in the email they have given me an appeals process for IAS (which I have been advised is financially driven and not as impartial as POPLA). I have replied to ask for a verification number, which from reading the forums could mean they will drag their feet in providing one?

This is what the rejection email said about a further appeal:

"The Independent Appeals Service (www.theIAS.org) provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of the date of this rejection. Please note that if you opt to appeal to the IAS and the appeal is unsuccessful you will only be able to settle the PCN at the full amount of £100.00."

My confusion is that, although New World Facilities have issued the ticket, the appeal process on the back of the PCN is through a completely different company - Parking CSL (which I believe is a trading name of a debt collection agency). Is this normal?! (Incidentally, both are BPA members from the looks of things)

The photos I got back in the rejection email show my car windscreen frosted over, and the windscreen underneath fogged up so you can't read the permit. This is completely beyond my control given that it's winter.

2. On Friday I received a second ticket, for not displaying a valid permit. This is when I started to get quite confused, as my permit had been clearly displayed. I've since contacted the Property Management Company and they have come back to say that new permits were sent out. My landlord never received this new permit, and nor did I. There was no communication in the communal noticeboard to advise that new permits had been issued so I was completely unaware. My permit does not include an expiry date, and it seems that the new permits are identical to the old ones.

3. This morning I came down to my car to find another ticket issued at 5:30 in the morning. Again, with the reason of not displaying a valid permit. This means that I cannot park in my designated bay until this is resolved and the management company issue me with a new permit.

I know that I will have to appeal internally the other two tickets, which undoubtedly will get rejected. But I was wondering what are the best reasons I can provide that will work in my favour with POPLA?

I've read about genuine pre-estimate of loss, but I don't know whether that argument is still valid or of it applies? I've found a lot of discussion in previous threads quite complicated as I don't have any knowledge about previous cases etc.

I have included a photo of the sign in the parking area of my apartment building in case that helps at all.

Thank you for any help anybody can offer in advance.

Click to view attachment
Jlc
QUOTE (kate_george @ Thu, 26 Jan 2017 - 20:11) *
I've read about genuine pre-estimate of loss...

Stop - boat has generally sailed on that (ParkingEye v Beavis) but there's complex arguments still. See here.

NWFEE recently moved from BPA to IPC. They lost many POPLA appeals and the IAS will see to that.

Do not appeal to the IAS.

Instead, look here. What does your lease say?

The sign is also pants - but start with the stuff above. (For starters you can't contract with a PO Box)

You may wish to read this too.
kate_george
QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 26 Jan 2017 - 20:39) *
QUOTE (kate_george @ Thu, 26 Jan 2017 - 20:11) *
I've read about genuine pre-estimate of loss...

Stop - boat has generally sailed on that (ParkingEye v Beavis) but there's complex arguments still. See here.

NWFEE recently moved from BPA to IPC. They lost many POPLA appeals and the IAS will see to that.

Do not appeal to the IAS.

Instead, look here. What does your lease say?

The sign is also pants - but start with the stuff above. (For starters you can't contract with a PO Box)

You may wish to read this too.


Firstly, thank you so much for your reply.

I've had a look at my lease, there are three points. The first is essentially to only park in the allocated space if there is one. The second is not to store a boat or caravan etc. The third states:

It is the tenant's responsibility to verify whether they are eligible for any Residents' Parking Scheme operated by the relevant local authority. The granting of this Tenancy does not imply a right to obtain a Resident's Permit.


Does this put me in a tough position? I was issued with a permit when I got the keys to my apartment - so as far as I was aware I was eligible. The management company has come back and said "We supply the flat owners information and it is their responsibility to pass any relevant information to their tenants. In this case it would seem that royal mail have failed to deliver the letter to your landlord".

NWFEE still states they are BPA members on their signage and they appear as members on the BPA website. If they have now moved does that eliminate the ability to go to POPLA? If that's the case, and I shouldn't use IAS I'm a little confused as to what way I have to appeal...will I have to take it to court?
Jlc
'Local authority' would not be a private parking company.

The BPA on the signs isn't ideal but doesn't create any easy 'out'. The IPC state that they vet all their members signs - I find that hard to believe here though (They have obviously confirmed they are operating under IPC rules if they've offered IAS). They should update the signs but the IPC will give a grace period to do so.

You won't get POPLA for any tickets in 2017 for the reasons I said above. (They switched on 1/1/17) The IAS will almost certainly side with the operator with any appeal. (And there appears to be an rather close relationship with a certain solicitor that issues court claims for parking companies...)

What did the PCN's on the car state? IAS or POPLA? (If POPLA then there might be an angle)

You don't have to do anything as such - they would have to initiate proceedings and win to force you to pay. But presenting pictures of a frosted up screen would seem to be legal suicide!

QUOTE (kate_george @ Thu, 26 Jan 2017 - 21:15) *
In this case it would seem that royal mail have failed to deliver the letter to your landlord.

Yeah, very helpful. These parking companies are out to issue as many tickets as possible and do not care about genuine residents.

As the signs do not define a 'valid permit' then how would you know without being psychic?
Hotel Oscar 87
You have provided a copy of one of NWFEE's signs and - as ever - the wording is forbidding in that the only contractual offer is to those with valid permits. It makes it plain that unauthorised parking is not permitted but then attempts to bind those who breach the primary terms to a subsidiary contract to pay £100 to park. The problem is that it is made clear that even then you are parking without permission. So do you remain a trespasser?

NWFEE "assign" unpaid PCN's to MIL Collections and one would have expected that following MIL's experience late last year at hearings in Essex (and Suffolk) that NWFEE might have amended their forbidding signs. The defence bundles in those cases even included examples of signs they could have based new ones on. Horses and water comes to mind.

What does your lease say about permits?
kate_george
As I'm renting, I have my tenancy agreement which only had three points regarding parking. I will contact my landlady to ask what her lease says re: parking and permits.

Thank you for the links, I'm going to lodge the appeals for tickets two and three and will include the signage not stating what constitutes a valid permit. I imagine in a couple of weeks time I will get more appeal rejections.

Incidentally, I believe the tickets say IPC..damn.
The Rookie
So what exactly does your tenancy agreement say? Does it mention permits and paying an extra fee to rent the space you already rent if one isn't displayed?
kate_george
No, my tenancy agreement doesn't say anything about renting the parking space or displaying permits. It says:

13 Car Parking and Storage

13.1 To park private vehicle(s) only at the Property. If the Tenant is allocated a car parking space, the Tenant will only park in the space allocated to the Property.

13.2 Not to park of store any boat, caravan, or commercial vehicle at the Property or in any communal car park or parking space without the prior consent of the Landlord or the Landlord's Agent which will not be unreasonably withheld but which may be withdrawn upon giving reasonable notice.

13.3 It is the Tenant's responsibility to verify whether they are eligible for any Resident's Parking Scheme operated by the relevant local authority. The granting of this Tenancy does not imply a right to obtain a Resident's Permit.

Incidentally, I have also noticed this further down the page:

15 Head Lease

15.1 To comply with the obligations of the Head Lease where and when a copy has been provided by the Landlord to the Tenant.

(I have never been provided with a copy).
ostell
I think that the recommendation is not to appeal to the IAS after the appeal to the parking compnay as it will be rejected anyway and it also gives them notice of what you would be presenting in court, if it goes that far, as basically the same people handle the IAS appeal that would be handling court proceedings.
Jlc
Anything on 'quiet enjoyment'?
kate_george
Nothing as far as I can see about quiet enjoyment.

My landlady has read through her lease and she said there isn't a clause about parking. The second and third ticket appeals have now also been rejected.

I've submitted an official complaint to the property management company to see if can be resolved from that angle.

For the first ticket, I have until Wednesday to appeal to the IAS if I wished, is the general consensus that I should or shouldn't bother? The first ticket has incorrect information about where I was parked at the time, so I wasn't sure if it was worth testing the waters with that one...
Lynnzer
Read my signature link on residential parking cases.

I have no doubt that you have been scammed.
Your terms of residence, head lease or whatever puts no obligation on you to pay a penalty for parking in contravention.

13.3 It is the Tenant's responsibility to verify whether they are eligible for any Resident's Parking Scheme operated by the relevant local authority. The granting of this Tenancy does not imply a right to obtain a Resident's Permit.

Que?
Where in hell does the local authority come into this?

Anyway, there appears to be a clear indication that you are entitled to the use of the parking facilities so you should now do a letter based on the most suitable template letter in my link. Or trawl around the other residential cases and you'll find more to work with.
Half_way
I'm guessisng that this
QUOTE
13.3 It is the Tenant's responsibility to verify whether they are eligible for any Resident's Parking Scheme operated by the relevant local authority. The granting of this Tenancy does not imply a right to obtain a Resident's Permit.

refers top controlled on street/council run car parking, which in some cases comes with a property, and is not in any way linked to any private parking spaces/land attached to the property
The Rookie
The management company employ these goons, the goons are the agent, remind them they are jointly liable for any wrong doing by them and you will be jointly naming them in any action for the torturous interference you have suffered.
ostell
QUOTE (kate_george @ Sun, 29 Jan 2017 - 07:09) *
13.1 To park private vehicle(s) only at the Property. If the Tenant is allocated a car parking space, the Tenant will only park in the space allocated to the Property.


This seems to be the bit that gives you the right to park. It must be a private vehicle and if you have an allocated space only use that otherwise park anywhere in the car park. And no mention of requiring a permit or a charge.
Lynnzer
Just added another signature link that would be good reading. Templates. Will enlighten you on how to make a claim for a breach of the DPA.
SchoolRunMum
QUOTE
The photos I got back in the rejection email show my car windscreen frosted over, and the windscreen underneath fogged up so you can't read the permit. This is completely beyond my control given that it's winter.


No problem, there is a defence about that if you should need it. Your case is very defendable on all counts but certainly don't go to IAS, only lodge the first challenge. It would be useful if your landlady could let you copy her lease pages because she WILL have something about a right to pass and re-pass and/or peaceful enjoyment.
kate_george
QUOTE
No problem, there is a defence about that if you should need it. Your case is very defendable on all counts but certainly don't go to IAS, only lodge the first challenge. It would be useful if your landlady could let you copy her lease pages because she WILL have something about a right to pass and re-pass and/or peaceful enjoyment.


Just to check, by first challenge you mean the first appeal directly to the PPC right?

I will contact her again about a copy of the lease. I'm still holding out hope that the management company come through for me.

QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Sun, 12 Feb 2017 - 12:48) *
Just added another signature link that would be good reading. Templates. Will enlighten you on how to make a claim for a breach of the DPA.


Thank you!
nosferatu1001
Yes, the first challenge is always to the PPC.

TELL the management company they ar to TELL their agent to cancel. ORgan grinder >>>> Monkey.
Lynnzer
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 08:27) *
Yes, the first challenge is always to the PPC.

TELL the management company they ar to TELL their agent to cancel. ORgan grinder >>>> Monkey.

Tortious interference letter on my templates. Edit to suit and sent it out.
If you don't want to take an action for damages just remove that bit and tell them to ensure the action against you MUST be prevented at this stage otherwise you will claim damages for tortious interference.
kate_george
So, as a quick updated. The first ticket has been agreed to be cancelled by NWFEE following my complaint to the management company. I've attached the response. Essentially blaming me for not contacting them. I find it very hard to believe that they would have cancelled the ticket even if I had contacted them at that point.

Once I have a copy of my landlords lease to reference, I will send a copy of the tortious interference letter to them.


Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Lynnzer
QUOTE (kate_george @ Sun, 19 Feb 2017 - 17:34) *
So, as a quick updated. The first ticket has been agreed to be cancelled by NWFEE following my complaint to the management company. I've attached the response. Essentially blaming me for not contacting them. I find it very hard to believe that they would have cancelled the ticket even if I had contacted them at that point.

Once I have a copy of my landlords lease to reference, I will send a copy of the tortious interference letter to them.


Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Did you send them the Tortious Interference letter?

If not then please do. NOW.
If you did then you start a legal action for damages against them
kate_george
QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Mon, 20 Feb 2017 - 11:37) *
Did you send them the Tortious Interference letter?

If not then please do. NOW.
If you did then you start a legal action for damages against them


I haven't yet, I have been waiting for my landlord to send a copy of the lease so I know what it specifies exactly and they can't come back with contradicting documentation. She sent it through to me this morning, so I will read through and prepare the letter.

Incidentally, it does have a passage about quiet enjoyment and about the right to repass.
Lynnzer
QUOTE (kate_george @ Mon, 20 Feb 2017 - 14:02) *
QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Mon, 20 Feb 2017 - 11:37) *
Did you send them the Tortious Interference letter?

If not then please do. NOW.
If you did then you start a legal action for damages against them


I haven't yet, I have been waiting for my landlord to send a copy of the lease so I know what it specifies exactly and they can't come back with contradicting documentation. She sent it through to me this morning, so I will read through and prepare the letter.

Incidentally, it does have a passage about quiet enjoyment and about the right to repass.

Seems like you have them bang to rights then.
Both Tortious interferance for the MA and Breach of DPA for the PPC.
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