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Full Version: Is 30 mph enforced on A2 towards Blackwall Tunnel from Bexleyheath?
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Peppipoo316
Hello Friends,

1. I drove to Bluewater mall through A2 via Blackwall tunnel joining from A13. Although most sections are 50 mph, there is a 30 mph restriction on a particular stretch lasting about 2 miles. There are few repeater signs with most of the signage obscured. This section has been like this for more than year. The roadworks were meant to end around end of August 2016. Anyway I am not too concerned as well under the peed limit in this section.

2. On the return journey towards Blackwall Tunnel via A2, it is first NSL and then 50 mph. When I entered the 30 mph stretch on this side of the road, I couldn't see any such 30 mph signage. No repeater signs either. All the speed limit signage were obscured. As there was no signage, I continued at 50 mph for few seconds but then slowed down to 35 mph as I didn't want to take any risks. I noticed many cameras in the underpasses although most of them didn't look like speed cameras. A couple of them were front facing. One particular camera looked yellow, it was front facing but looked smaller than the Gatsos.

My wife who was in the front passenger seat categorically denies see any 30 mph signage on this direction and that every signage in this stretch was obscured.

I wasn't flashed although it was about 16:50 (dusk time) but I am now very nervous as to whether I missed 30 mph sign in this direction towards Blackwall Tunnel. My driving license will be 2 years old on 06-Feb-2017 and have kept it clean so far.

Would really appreciate any feedback / comments from anyone who have been through this section.
The Rookie
If there is a system of street lighting then in a 30 limit that is the effective repeater and rounders are not permitted.
Peppipoo316
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 21 Jan 2017 - 18:52) *
If there is a system of street lighting then in a 30 limit that is the effective repeater and rounders are not permitted.


Sorry, forgot to mention this is a dual carriageway (3 + 3 lanes) on many sections and 2 lanes in some. The problem here is lack of signage and not even a single repeater sign like it is on the other direction. I am fully aware of the street lighting system but this ain't a street.
andy_foster
If you receive a NIP, come back and ask for advice. However, currently, you are just wasting everybody's time.
BaggieBoy
QUOTE (Peppipoo316 @ Sat, 21 Jan 2017 - 19:11) *
I am fully aware of the street lighting system but this ain't a street.

So it is a river then?

Just because it is a D3 road does not mean that street lighting would not make it a 30MPH limit unless otherwise signed.
Peppipoo316
QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Sat, 21 Jan 2017 - 19:57) *
QUOTE (Peppipoo316 @ Sat, 21 Jan 2017 - 19:11) *
I am fully aware of the street lighting system but this ain't a street.

So it is a river then?

Just because it is a D3 road does not mean that street lighting would not make it a 30MPH limit unless otherwise signed.


There are many repeater signs in A2 as it a busy dual carriageway connecting London and Kent. They are very clear signage and repeaters except this section. The signage is clear on the opposite lane of this stretch as well towards Kent so it makes it easy for drivers to look and follow.

In this section, Google maps shows 30 mph signage but there was none today. Maybe they were taken last year around Summer or Autumn. Every sign was obscured (painted black or grey) when I passed. This is not a typical street as this is a wide and busy section of a dual carriageway. In fact these are underpasses.

I found these FOI request links about this section:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/a2_b...=whatdotheyknow

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/what..._limit_on_the_a

I made a request as well. Time will tell if I committed any offence.
thisisntme
Are you getting confused by the 30mph signs for the roads running parallel to the A2 on the approach to the South Circular? I've driven this section quite a few times and there are 50mph repeaters on the left on the kerbs of the A2.
Peppipoo316
QUOTE (thisisntme @ Sat, 21 Jan 2017 - 21:00) *
Are you getting confused by the 30mph signs for the roads running parallel to the A2 on the approach to the South Circular? I've driven this section quite a few times and there are 50mph repeaters on the left on the kerbs of the A2.


I was referring to the 1.5 - 2 miles stretch before this (just before start of Eltham).

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4560517,0...#33;6m1!1e1

Note that I was heading straight towards Blackwall Tunnel and not the slip road as pictured in google maps.

In google maps, we can see 30 mph signage and repeaters but today there were none, whatever I saw were obscured. If signage was only on the left hand side and not on the right hand side, it would have been impossible to spot it if there was a large vehicle on the left. Usually signage for variable speed limit sections are placed on both sides to ensure visibility. There are few front facing cameras in this stretch at least one (this looks like Variable Speed Limit and not Average Speed Camera based on the FOI request links posted above), and if memory serves me right. I was doing 35-40 mph.

Aforementioned when I was driving on the opposite lane towards Kent, the 30 mph signage were there and repeated twice or thrice, so it was simple to stick to the limit but not on the lane towards Blackwall Tunnel.
Unzippy
The section from the tunnel to just past Eltham is average speed limit, 30mph.
The other side isn't.
Churchmouse
QUOTE (Peppipoo316 @ Sat, 21 Jan 2017 - 20:20) *
I found these FOI request links about this section:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/a2_b...=whatdotheyknow

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/what..._limit_on_the_a

I made a request as well. Time will tell if I committed any offence.

The first of those is quite amusing. They say the 30 limit is for ongoing works to replace the central crash barriers and it applies in both directions, but also that the average speed cameras won't be in operation until February 2017. The 30 limit will presumably be in place indefinitely, as the central barrier has to be "re-designed", and they're no longer saying when they expect that to happen. But the good news is that they've taken the opportunity to get other works done in the meantime, such installing as the aforementioned average speed cameras. So, motorists should be thankful for that.

--Churchmouse
Peppipoo316
Thanks very much. Glad to hear that but still nervous. Whoever are managing these roadworks must be ashamed for dragging it this long and for not putting up clear signage indicating the correct speed limit. Simply painting the signage black doesn't really help.

No wonder our Government is cash strapped and keeps punishing motorists.
Jimzzr
QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Sun, 22 Jan 2017 - 12:47) *
QUOTE (Peppipoo316 @ Sat, 21 Jan 2017 - 20:20) *
I found these FOI request links about this section:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/a2_b...=whatdotheyknow

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/what..._limit_on_the_a

I made a request as well. Time will tell if I committed any offence.

The first of those is quite amusing. They say the 30 limit is for ongoing works to replace the central crash barriers and it applies in both directions, but also that the average speed cameras won't be in operation until February 2017. The 30 limit will presumably be in place indefinitely, as the central barrier has to be "re-designed", and they're no longer saying when they expect that to happen. But the good news is that they've taken the opportunity to get other works done in the meantime, such installing as the aforementioned average speed cameras. So, motorists should be thankful for that.

--Churchmouse


I use the road every day, so know it well and that kind of confirms what I suspected. What we currently have is a relatively short 30 limit (the signs are there , just after the sun in the sands junction) with front facing specs cameras, nested inside a much bigger 50 limit, with what I suspect are rear facing speedspike average cameras (from blackwall tunnel (before?) to just after the black prince where the road reverts to nsl). I had pondered if they could actually set up the system so that the speedspike system could still be enforced with the lower limit specs system in the middle of it. I guess they could enforce the sections either side of the 30 as separate systems but perhaps too much trouble.


Peppipoo316
QUOTE (Jimzzr @ Mon, 23 Jan 2017 - 19:08) *
QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Sun, 22 Jan 2017 - 12:47) *
QUOTE (Peppipoo316 @ Sat, 21 Jan 2017 - 20:20) *
I found these FOI request links about this section:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/a2_b...=whatdotheyknow

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/what..._limit_on_the_a

I made a request as well. Time will tell if I committed any offence.

The first of those is quite amusing. They say the 30 limit is for ongoing works to replace the central crash barriers and it applies in both directions, but also that the average speed cameras won't be in operation until February 2017. The 30 limit will presumably be in place indefinitely, as the central barrier has to be "re-designed", and they're no longer saying when they expect that to happen. But the good news is that they've taken the opportunity to get other works done in the meantime, such installing as the aforementioned average speed cameras. So, motorists should be thankful for that.

--Churchmouse


I use the road every day, so know it well and that kind of confirms what I suspected. What we currently have is a relatively short 30 limit (the signs are there , just after the sun in the sands junction) with front facing specs cameras, nested inside a much bigger 50 limit, with what I suspect are rear facing speedspike average cameras (from blackwall tunnel (before?) to just after the black prince where the road reverts to nsl). I had pondered if they could actually set up the system so that the speedspike system could still be enforced with the lower limit specs system in the middle of it. I guess they could enforce the sections either side of the 30 as separate systems but perhaps too much trouble.


30 mph signage is present on the section towards Kent. I would like to know if it is enforced in the opposite direction of the same stretch as I didn't notice any signage I was doing 35-40 mph. I am really worried if someone removed the temporary signage stands and forgot to put it back in place.
Jimzzr
QUOTE (Peppipoo316 @ Mon, 23 Jan 2017 - 19:27) *
QUOTE (Jimzzr @ Mon, 23 Jan 2017 - 19:08) *
QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Sun, 22 Jan 2017 - 12:47) *
QUOTE (Peppipoo316 @ Sat, 21 Jan 2017 - 20:20) *
I found these FOI request links about this section:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/a2_b...=whatdotheyknow

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/what..._limit_on_the_a

I made a request as well. Time will tell if I committed any offence.

The first of those is quite amusing. They say the 30 limit is for ongoing works to replace the central crash barriers and it applies in both directions, but also that the average speed cameras won't be in operation until February 2017. The 30 limit will presumably be in place indefinitely, as the central barrier has to be "re-designed", and they're no longer saying when they expect that to happen. But the good news is that they've taken the opportunity to get other works done in the meantime, such installing as the aforementioned average speed cameras. So, motorists should be thankful for that.

--Churchmouse


I use the road every day, so know it well and that kind of confirms what I suspected. What we currently have is a relatively short 30 limit (the signs are there , just after the sun in the sands junction) with front facing specs cameras, nested inside a much bigger 50 limit, with what I suspect are rear facing speedspike average cameras (from blackwall tunnel (before?) to just after the black prince where the road reverts to nsl). I had pondered if they could actually set up the system so that the speedspike system could still be enforced with the lower limit specs system in the middle of it. I guess they could enforce the sections either side of the 30 as separate systems but perhaps too much trouble.


30 mph signage is present on the section towards Kent. I would like to know if it is enforced in the opposite direction of the same stretch as I didn't notice any signage I was doing 35-40 mph. I am really worried if someone removed the temporary signage stands and forgot to put it back in place.


I think it's very likely you're in the clear. They're in the process of removing the 30 limit (well it's pretty much gone on both sides now, including the forward facing specs cameras).
The 30 limits coast bound had disappeared by yesterday evening, so may very well have been missing when you went down there.

Peppipoo316
[quote name='Jimzzr' date='Tue, 24 Jan 2017 - 18:11' post='1252222']

Thanks mate although I will remain cautious. It looks like will will have to pay more attention to signage than the road in front of us and it is becoming quite stressful to drive in roads where there is not adequate signage.
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