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A K N
Hi All

Wonder if you can help please


Is there a minimum required amount of signage required in a car park?

I used a car park in Romford, Essex that was a council car park. There was a bag over the only meter in the car park so I left my car to go to the bank, came back five minutes later and had a ticket!

Upon reading it, the ticket said its a Private Car Park. NOTHING seemed different from any other time I have parked there. Then another person said look at the very top of the times etc it now says Private Car Park. This is written some 20feet in the air! But there are no other signs as you enter or leave by foot or anywhere else now that its Private but run by the council?


Is there a minimum required amount of signage required in a car park as the council rejected my appeal saying its my job to check. I said why does it not say Private Car Park by the only walking entrance/exit to the car park, everyone has to use this entrance and would be clear. All I got back was that I should check

I was a bit peeved! as the council changed this from Public to Private about two weeks before I used it and two builders said the ticket people are catching loads of people. I have also since found a picture that clearly said Private Car Park right in front of the covered ticket machine that was not there when I was there and not there now!

Hope someone can help please
stamfordman
You need to post all the materials you have here - PCN and pics.
stamfordman
That's a council ticket isn't it? What has 'private' got to do with it?

EDIT

Ah - but the signs aren't right surely. Looks like real dog's dinner:

Slaney Road, Romford. RM1 3NH
View the location in Google Maps

The car park is now open to the public Monday - Friday 6pm – 8pm

PLEASE NOTE
Slaney Road car park will only be available to Season Ticket holders Monday – Friday until completion of the Romford Leisure development.

https://www3.havering.gov.uk/Pages/ServiceC...laney_Road.aspx


And:

Slaney Road Car Park Open for Season Ticket Holders Only
As a result of the new Romford Leisure Development being built we have had to introduce parking limitations for the Slaney Road car park which are expected to be in place until April 2018.
Slaney Road car park will be closed on Thursday 2nd June 2016 and Friday 3rd June 2016 to allow for the installation of the Romford Leisure Development office units on site.
Season Ticket holders will be able to use the Angel Way Multi Storey car park for the days that the Slaney Road car park is closed.
Slaney Road car park will only be available to Season Ticket holders Monday - Friday from Monday 13th June 2016 until completion of the Romford Leisure development.
Slaney Road car park will only be open to the public on Saturdays, Sundays & Bank/ Public Holidays.
Season Tickets are only available to existing customers and will unfortunately not be available to any new applicants.
Alternative parking for daily customers is available at:
 Angel Way Multi Storey car park, Angel Way RM1 1JH
 Como Street car park, Como Street RM7 7DL
 The Market Place (Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Sundays), RM1 3AB
 The Liberty Multi Storey car park, Western Road RM1 3LD
 The Mall car park, Western Road RM1 3EE
 The Brewery car Park, Waterloo Road RM1 1AU
 The Britannia car park, Market Link RM1 3AB
We are sorry for any inconvenience that this may cause.
For further information then please visit the Havering web site
www.havering.gov.uk/Pages/Services/Car-parks or email Trafficandparkingcontrol@havering.gov.uk
Bogsy
QUOTE
PLEASE NOTE
Slaney Road car park will only be available to Season Ticket holders Monday – Friday until completion of the Romford Leisure development.


For the council to legally change the car park from pay & display Mon -Fri to permit holders only Mon-Fri they would have to produce an off street parking places order that presecribes this change. Insist on seeing a copy. There is a chance that as the permit rule is only temporary they may have cut corners and not officially prescribed the change by order. No order = no contravention.
A K N
I found out after I got my ticket that the Car Park is now Private but my point to the council was that the signs are EXACTLY the same as when it a PUBLIC CAR PARK
so I had no idea I couldnt park there and there is only one ticket machine and that had a cover over it. I have also been told that the ticket people know the signage is rubbish and heaps of people are being "caught" the builders told me that

There are no signs as you walk in and out and there is only one place to walk in and out

I have SINCE found out at one point there was a sign saying Permit Holders Only in front of the ticket machine but that is not there and hasnt been since

Do I have a legal case to fight this please. Is there a legal framework stating where signs should be placed in a car park etc

Thank you Bogsy I will ask

But should they have more and better signs please?
hcandersen
As you can see clearly, it is season ticket holders only except for Saturdays and other specified days.

You have deleted the date of contravention!

Assuming you parked there Mon-Fri during restricted hours, then you couldn't because you didn't have a season ticket. To the extent that all season ticket holders are 'private', then it's a private car park. But that's the extent of private.

I cannot see anything wrong with the signs, only your interpretation. Of course, it might be that the proper orders are not in place, but I wouldn't bank on it. Nonetheless, this should be tested.
Incandescent
HCA is right, you need to test it, (proper orders in place etc), but be aware that councils work on a "we are perfect and are never wrong" system, so I suspect you will have to take them to adjudication, and hence lost the discount option. However, challenge it now, and post their reply, as the often shoot themselves in the foot, despite being "perfect" !
A K N
Hi all, thanks for the brill advice and I will test it smile.gif And advise back to you all

My gripe signage wise is if I visited a car park for the first time of course I would look and read everything displayed and not assume anything. Legally the council are correct. But morally, they are just looking to make a quick buck. If you visit a car park on a semi regular basis for many years you wouldnt stand and read the times and prices off the board every time you go. You put your money in and leave. This car park "change" had only taken place two weeks prior to me using it so morally it might have been nice for the council to post notices in the car park even for a temporary period.

The curious thing is that at some point the council DID put a sign in front of the ticket machine (below) so wondering who and why it was removed as this is what I call obvious "change" to users. Its still not there today, two months after I received my ticket. From the picture you can also see how high the other sign is. You cant even see the bottom of it in the picture taken.



And some kind person even stuck this to the entrance

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