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MrSpot
Hi everyone, just discovered this forum and have read with interest lots of individual cases.

last month, I was caught at a speed of 77mph on a 3 lane section of the A1 up norf, I considered it harsh as i understood the rules were usually 10% +1 - BUT, as it turns out, my van is not classed as car derived (despite being the size of a focus) and the actual limit on this THREE laned section of the A1 is 60mph for a van (an archaic rule which should not apply to a small van IMO, although now i realise thats how it is) - BUT, i accept either way that I was speeding and accept the 3 points and £100 fine.

anyway, this week i receive another NIP:

Caught at 60mph in a variable speed zone of 50mph, between junction 10 and 11 of the M1 .

I'm fuming, i like to think i'm a careful driver, never had an accident, never caused an accident, always record my journeys etc...and whilst i have freely admitted my wrong-doings on previous occasions, this time, i'm considering contesting it.

on my journey back from Luton airport on wednesday (the same stretch of Motorway), i noted the following:

M1

wednesday 14th dec

junction 10 southbound

entry slip road - 60mph variable limit illuminated

next gantry - 50mph variable limit illuminated

next gantry at junction 9 - 40 variable limit illuminated

average speed cameras during junction 9 roadworks 50mph

average speed cameras end, NSL signs

next gantry 50mph variable limit illuminated

no congestion, road running smoothly, good conditions.



the distance in between 6 changes in speed? 4.9 miles

now i'm sorry, most of my concentration is on the road, people undertaking, panic breakers and keeping aware of every other eventuality on the motorway, and to have to constantly check overhead gentry's (which seem to be every half mile around luton) is adding nothing but distractions to the road ahead.

for someone driving 26 years without an accident or ever having been pulled over to 6 points in the space of a month has me SO angry, 3 more points and i loose my job/home/car/everything because of an over zealous system of camera's and limits.

am i wrong?, should i simply bow down and pay another £100 and accept my 9 points and have to become so aware everywhere i drive that i'll probably lapse in every other area?

hmph
andy_foster
We don't do tea and sympathy here.

If you want help trying to find a defence, give us all the relevant details and we'll see if he can find anything.
The Slithy Tove
Check the type of van carefully, to establish whether or not it really is car-derived. We've seen cases here before where "they" have got it wrong. While you were still speeding, it could make a small difference.

As for the multiple changes in the limit - no excuse I'm afraid. All but the first limit you indicated up to the point where you were caught was less than 60, so no real excuse for being clocked at 60.

Hopefully you'll get offered a Speed Awareness Course for the second ticket.
MrSpot
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 11:53) *
We don't do tea and sympathy here.

If you want help trying to find a defence, give us all the relevant details and we'll see if he can find anything.



hmm, i'm not asking for tea or sympathy and have outlined the details of the offence, but hey, thanks for the welcoming reply biggrin.gif


Jlc
Out of interest, what type of van is it?

You mention 9 points? Have you been caught twice or three times?
MrSpot
QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 11:57) *
Check the type of van carefully, to establish whether or not it really is car-derived. We've seen cases here before where "they" have got it wrong. While you were still speeding, it could make a small difference.

As for the multiple changes in the limit - no excuse I'm afraid. All but the first limit you indicated up to the point where you were caught was less than 60, so no real excuse for being clocked at 60.

Hopefully you'll get offered a Speed Awareness Course for the second ticket.


hiya, thanks for the reply. I have checked and unfortunately a 'transit connect' is classed as a LGV, which whilst i accept that is its classification, is bizarre as it is as able as any modern car with regard to its safety features and certainly more able than any 10+ year old average car on the road.

Furthermore, I imagine a people carrier with all 7 occupants in place carries as much weight as a short wheel base low top van could.....but there you go, what can you do?

yes, i fear you are correct with regard to the ticket, thanks for the advice smile.gif





QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 12:01) *
Out of interest, what type of van is it?

You mention 9 points? Have you been caught twice or three times?



Hiya, I was caught in 2014 up in the highlands on a reclassified speed limit of 50 over the Kessock bridge in Inverness, 66 in a 50 - I lived up there for 10 years and on a visit back, i hadnt realised the limit had changed from 70 to 50 - my fault, i admitted and took the fine and points
Jlc
Andy's 'welcoming' reply was because some of your post appeared to be a 'rant'. Whilst we may agree with some of your frustration it's only the 'law' that matters but it is probably outdated.

Yes, that vehicle is indeed LGV so is restricted on certain roads as you are now aware.

60 in a 50 should see the offer of a course to at least avoid 3 points.

It appears to be a HADECS2 system - there doesn't appear to be any reason to doubt the measurement speed - but you can ask for photo's, particularly under the pretence to assist in the identification of the driver. They don't have to provide but often do. (It doesn't stop the 28 days to name the driver)

The photo's and lines provide a secondary corroboration of the speed.

Otherwise, it's all down to the signage - it is more likely you did miss a reduction. There are no photo's of the signs (HADECS3 do) but there's a log of displayed limits. There's also a grace period (10 seconds) before enforcing a reducing limit.
MrSpot
QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 12:22) *
Andy's 'welcoming' reply was because some of your post appeared to be a 'rant'. Whilst we may agree with some of your frustration it's only the 'law' that matters but it is probably outdated.

Yes, that vehicle is indeed LGV so is restricted on certain roads as you are now aware.

60 in a 50 should see the offer of a course to at least avoid 3 points.

It appears to be a HADECS2 system - there doesn't appear to be any reason to doubt the measurement speed - but you can ask for photo's, particularly under the pretence to assist in the identification of the driver. They don't have to provide but often do. (It doesn't stop the 28 days to name the driver)

The photo's and lines provide a secondary corroboration of the speed.

Otherwise, it's all down to the signage - it is more likely you did miss a reduction. There are no photo's of the signs (HADECS3 do) but there's a log of displayed limits. There's also a grace period (10 seconds) before enforcing a reducing limit.



Thanks for your reply.....I assure you none of my post was intended as a rant - I frequent many forums (mostly motoring) and theres always a character like Andy - I guess its understandable with the amount of posts you guys have to trawl through and theres bound to be frustrations - but theres no real need for rudeness smile.gif - its better to build communities so that people can pass on advice rather than chop people down at the first opportunity....ahem

anyway

thanks for the advice, its really useful to know what each system of camera has. I think, again, in this instance i'm probably best not contesting and possibly shutting up and hoping that an awareness course is offered - the thought of 9 points makes me feel very uneasy - i'd like to think i was law abiding and just unlucky in each instance.... but 60,000 miles a year traversing the country for work leaves me feeling like over-cautiousness will somehow debilitate the quality of my driving.

cheers









The Rookie
Ironically the Connect is a car derived van (from a Focus) but as it's over two tonnes MAM it can't avail itself of the CDV/Car speed limits.

Very easy to check really.

You are thin on details, that's a fact, look at some other threads to understand what you could have been providing to make helping you easier.
fedup2
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 13:22) *
Ironically the Connect is a car derived van (from a Focus) but as it's over two tonnes MAM it can't avail itself of the CDV/Car speed limits.

Very easy to check really.

You are thin on details, that's a fact, look at some other threads to understand what you could have been providing to make helping you easier.


The connect is nothing like the Focus is it?.As i understand it a car derived van is a Car thats been converted to a van,not made a different shape. If they took a focus and instead of fitting rear glass and rear seat,fitted metal panels then that would be car derived.
Or have i got it wrong?

MrSpot
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 13:22) *
Ironically the Connect is a car derived van (from a Focus) but as it's over two tonnes MAM it can't avail itself of the CDV/Car speed limits.

Very easy to check really.

You are thin on details, that's a fact, look at some other threads to understand what you could have been providing to make helping you easier.



thanks, but there really aren't many details to add?.....the location, the variable speed limit displayed, the actual speed I was caught.

the first part of my post was merely to explain the first NIP, which i have accepted and paid/accepted points etc.

as for the vehicle itself, i simply wasn't aware it was classed as an LGV and not car derived as were any of my colleagues who drive the same vehicle - who thankfully now are.
NewJudge
QUOTE (fedup2 @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 13:28) *
The connect is nothing like the Focus is it?.As i understand it a car derived van is a Car thats been converted to a van,not made a different shape. If they took a focus and instead of fitting rear glass and rear seat,fitted metal panels then that would be car derived.
Or have i got it wrong?


I know it’s a Wiki article and thus not gospel, but:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Transit_Connect

“The Ford Transit Connect is a compact panel van developed by Ford Europe and derived from the Ford Focus.”

MrSpot
QUOTE (fedup2 @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 13:28) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 13:22) *
Ironically the Connect is a car derived van (from a Focus) but as it's over two tonnes MAM it can't avail itself of the CDV/Car speed limits.

Very easy to check really.

You are thin on details, that's a fact, look at some other threads to understand what you could have been providing to make helping you easier.


The connect is nothing like the Focus is it?.As i understand it a car derived van is a Car thats been converted to a van,not made a different shape. If they took a focus and instead of fitting rear glass and rear seat,fitted metal panels then that would be car derived.
Or have i got it wrong?



from what i've read, its not car derived, it uses the same drive train and running gear as other ford vehicles, but is a 'van'......what frustrates me is shove some windows in it and a few extra seats, call it 'torneo' and you have a car which is exempt from the lgv rules, despite being the same bloody vehicle......madness
southpaw82
QUOTE (MrSpot @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 13:16) *
Thanks for your reply.....I assure you none of my post was intended as a rant - I frequent many forums (mostly motoring) and theres always a character like Andy - I guess its understandable with the amount of posts you guys have to trawl through and theres bound to be frustrations - but theres no real need for rudeness smile.gif - its better to build communities so that people can pass on advice rather than chop people down at the first opportunity....ahem

For the record, Andy is only repeating rule 5 of the House Rules.
MrSpot
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 14:38) *
QUOTE (MrSpot @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 13:16) *
Thanks for your reply.....I assure you none of my post was intended as a rant - I frequent many forums (mostly motoring) and theres always a character like Andy - I guess its understandable with the amount of posts you guys have to trawl through and theres bound to be frustrations - but theres no real need for rudeness smile.gif - its better to build communities so that people can pass on advice rather than chop people down at the first opportunity....ahem

For the record, Andy is only repeating rule 5 of the House Rules.



5. If you come here to ask for advice (check)

don't act up if the advice isn't to your liking.(I hadn't yet received any)

Advice is given freely by people who give up their own time to do so (and very much appreciated it is too).

At least acknowledge that (absolutely, I hadnt assumed any other way)

If you'd prefer to be patted on the shoulder, told "there, there" and given a cup of tea click here. (I never gave any indication of the need for sympathy?)

Please also ensure that your posts are readable (it was?, to the point, articulate and readable),

i.e. please take some care with spelling and breaking paragraphs up and please don't use text speak.(again, it was)

I'm lost, I'm all for forum etiquette and did read as much as i could before posting, apologies if that wasn't enough?!?

how utterly bizzare
The Rookie
QUOTE (MrSpot @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 15:03) *
QUOTE (fedup2 @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 13:28) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 13:22) *
Ironically the Connect is a car derived van (from a Focus) but as it's over two tonnes MAM it can't avail itself of the CDV/Car speed limits.

Very easy to check really.

You are thin on details, that's a fact, look at some other threads to understand what you could have been providing to make helping you easier.


The connect is nothing like the Focus is it?.As i understand it a car derived van is a Car thats been converted to a van,not made a different shape. If they took a focus and instead of fitting rear glass and rear seat,fitted metal panels then that would be car derived.
Or have i got it wrong?



from what i've read, its not car derived, it uses the same drive train and running gear as other ford vehicles, but is a 'van'......what frustrates me is shove some windows in it and a few extra seats, call it 'torneo' and you have a car which is exempt from the lgv rules, despite being the same bloody vehicle......madness

The front bulkhead, floor pan and front end crash structure as well as the Powertrain is talkathon are all Focus as is the electrical architecture.

Apart from the front outer skin it is as much car derived as the mkiii Escort van was, it's just with the Escort they left it looking the same.

This is why the rules on 'light commercials that can use car speed limits' need a major re-write as they are outdated and confusing, especially when you consider that under the current trials a 40+tonnes HGV has the same a-road limit as a 2040Kg connect while a Hilux DPV can weigh 3.5 tonne and use car speed limits.....the lunatic has taken over the asylum!
MrSpot
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 15:04) *
QUOTE (MrSpot @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 15:03) *
QUOTE (fedup2 @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 13:28) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 13:22) *
Ironically the Connect is a car derived van (from a Focus) but as it's over two tonnes MAM it can't avail itself of the CDV/Car speed limits.

Very easy to check really.

You are thin on details, that's a fact, look at some other threads to understand what you could have been providing to make helping you easier.


The connect is nothing like the Focus is it?.As i understand it a car derived van is a Car thats been converted to a van,not made a different shape. If they took a focus and instead of fitting rear glass and rear seat,fitted metal panels then that would be car derived.
Or have i got it wrong?



from what i've read, its not car derived, it uses the same drive train and running gear as other ford vehicles, but is a 'van'......what frustrates me is shove some windows in it and a few extra seats, call it 'torneo' and you have a car which is exempt from the lgv rules, despite being the same bloody vehicle......madness

The front bulkhead, floor pan and front end crash structure as well as the Powertrain is talkathon are all Focus as is the electrical architecture.

Apart from the front outer skin it is as much car derived as the mkiii Escort van was, it's just with the Escort they left it looking the same.

This is why the rules on 'light commercials that can use car speed limits' need a major re-write as they are outdated and confusing, especially when you consider that under the current trials a 40+tonnes HGV has the same a-road limit as a 2040Kg connect while a Hilux DPV can weigh 3.5 tonne and use car speed limits.....the lunatic has taken over the asylum!




wow!, really?.....thats absolutely shocking!
fedup2
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 15:04) *
QUOTE (MrSpot @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 15:03) *
QUOTE (fedup2 @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 13:28) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 13:22) *
Ironically the Connect is a car derived van (from a Focus) but as it's over two tonnes MAM it can't avail itself of the CDV/Car speed limits.

Very easy to check really.

You are thin on details, that's a fact, look at some other threads to understand what you could have been providing to make helping you easier.


The connect is nothing like the Focus is it?.As i understand it a car derived van is a Car thats been converted to a van,not made a different shape. If they took a focus and instead of fitting rear glass and rear seat,fitted metal panels then that would be car derived.
Or have i got it wrong?



from what i've read, its not car derived, it uses the same drive train and running gear as other ford vehicles, but is a 'van'......what frustrates me is shove some windows in it and a few extra seats, call it 'torneo' and you have a car which is exempt from the lgv rules, despite being the same bloody vehicle......madness

The front bulkhead, floor pan and front end crash structure as well as the Powertrain is talkathon are all Focus as is the electrical architecture.

Apart from the front outer skin it is as much car derived as the mkiii Escort van was, it's just with the Escort they left it looking the same.

This is why the rules on 'light commercials that can use car speed limits' need a major re-write as they are outdated and confusing, especially when you consider that under the current trials a 40+tonnes HGV has the same a-road limit as a 2040Kg connect while a Hilux DPV can weigh 3.5 tonne and use car speed limits.....the lunatic has taken over the asylum!


The Escort wasn't a car derived van in the sense that i believe it. A fiesta was. The Fiesta was the SAME vehicle with fewer windows fitted and a board instead of rear seats,not parts from a car as your suggesting.

I do agree though it doesn't make sense to have vans running round limited to the same speeds as a 44 ton truck but that is almost as it stands.
Vans have come along way since the ford Anglia (which also wasn't a car derived van) with powerful brakes and sharp handling,far far better than many cars. As i understand it the reason is, although they can stop and go safely the loads could be loose, unfortunately we no longer live in a society ruled by common sense.
666
All the arguments about its derivation are irrelevant if its MAM is over 2 tonnes, which is the case with almost all Connects.
The Rookie
Indeed, it's just the stupidity of it.....and it's all connects (except Tourneos) by the way, the lightest is 2040Kg.

I agree the Escort is less a CDV than the Fiesta but no-one ever argued it wasn't one.
sgtdixie
The rules on speed limits have nothing to do with brakes or suspension. They are because goods vehicles carry unrestrained loads which can cause substantial damage or injury when they shift during cornering or braking or on impact.

Anyone who drives a goods vehicle like a car is asking for trouble. Whilst the speed limits may need looking at the simple fact is that the highway code and an ability to pass a driving test tells you that the vehicle has a lower limit. Forgetting what you were taught to pass the test isn't a defence.

As you don't dispute the allegations and now understand where the problem lies I suggest just naming yourself and taking what comes.
666
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 16:18) *
Indeed, it's just the stupidity of it.....and it's all connects (except Tourneos) by the way, the lightest is 2040Kg.


According to the Ford UK website, the 1.0 Ecoboost (100 PS) model is 1,960 kg.
The Rookie
Thanks, wasn't in the list when I last checked....
MrSpot
QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 16:49) *
The rules on speed limits have nothing to do with brakes or suspension. They are because goods vehicles carry unrestrained loads which can cause substantial damage or injury when they shift during cornering or braking or on impact.

Anyone who drives a goods vehicle like a car is asking for trouble. Whilst the speed limits may need looking at the simple fact is that the highway code and an ability to pass a driving test tells you that the vehicle has a lower limit. Forgetting what you were taught to pass the test isn't a defence.

As you don't dispute the allegations and now understand where the problem lies I suggest just naming yourself and taking what comes.



i'm not sure i agree with the statement 'anyone who drives a goods vehicle like a car is asking for trouble'.....thats a bit of a broad statement and doesnt represent all sizes of goods vehicles.....the connect, is no bigger than a focus except it has a higher load area, an MPV is bigger than a connect and is capable of carrying 7 fat blokes - if you see where i'm coming from


Theres a huge steel bulkhead is situated between load area and driver in the connect, i'm not sure what kind of load you assume would be dangerous or cause substatial damage in a load area the size of an L1 connect....you'ld be lucky to get a small two seater sofa in the back wink.gif
sgtdixie
I suppose seeing a decapitated transit connect driver may have coloured my view.
MrSpot
QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 21:09) *
I suppose seeing a decapitated transit connect driver may have coloured my view.



yes.....yes quite.....and those motorcyclists who can reach speeds of 100mph in less than 5 seconds?, I've seen one of them lying motionless in-between a motorway central reservation.

I think therefore all high powered motorbikes should have a roll cage built around them and the riders should wear a special air-bag suit

....come on dude, i'm not here for an argument, i'm here for advice
Kickaha
The best advice I can give is for you to knock off the emotive moaning and ranting and give members the facts as requested.

If you do that you will get the best possible advice.

Edit to add: this is meant as advice and is not intended in any other way.
southpaw82
QUOTE (MrSpot @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 21:22) *
....come on dude, i'm not here for an argument, i'm here for advice

Take the fixed penalty.
MrSpot
QUOTE (Kickaha @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 21:55) *
The best advice I can give is for you to knock off the emotive moaning and ranting and give members the facts as requested.

If you do that you will get the best possible advice.

Edit to add: this is meant as advice and is not intended in any other way.



your advice consists of accusing me of 'emotive moaning and ranting'further to this, I offered the facts in the first post


but thanks
MrSpot
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 21:57) *
QUOTE (MrSpot @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 21:22) *
....come on dude, i'm not here for an argument, i'm here for advice

Take the fixed penalty.



Thank you, I think this is the best course of action.

just a side note, guys, as I stated before, I appreciate you must get a lot of requests on here from motorists looking for advice (good and bad), but why the snarky comments?.

My original question was should i contest a speeding fine through 4.9 miles of motorway with 6 different speed limits, i gave details of the NIP, I gave the location, I gave the road conditions. in between the useful and helpful comments i've been told i'm looking for sympathy, ranting, thin on details?, been quoted rule 5 of the house rules of which i broke none and then more moaning and ranting.

honestly, you guys know how to make someone feel welcome

cheers

sgtdixie
If you start your thread with a rant you will tend to get replies in a similar vein. For instance i pointed out the technical reasons for the lower limit only to have the argument dismissed. When i evidenced the potentialreal life effect you got sarcastic. So with respect dont dish it out if you don't want it back.

There are numerous threads without these sorts of exchanges but that is because the OP's arent ranting and accept they are in the wrong. You were never going to be Mr Hard Done By when you were exceeding the highest speed limit there is and dont know the speed limit for your vehicle which you were taught to pass your test.
peterguk
QUOTE (MrSpot @ Sat, 17 Dec 2016 - 01:23) *
should i contest a speeding fine through 4.9 miles of motorway with 6 different speed limits


And the answer is a simple one.

There is never a defence to driving at a speed higher than the NSL. So that's the first one dealt with.

Unless you can prove in court the signage was defective, then you have no defence for the 2nd one.

So to summarise, so far, you have no defence for either.
Churchmouse
This is all very entertaining...

QUOTE
the distance in between 6 changes in speed? 4.9 miles

now i'm sorry, most of my concentration is on the road, people undertaking, panic breakers and keeping aware of every other eventuality on the motorway, and to have to constantly check overhead gentry's (which seem to be every half mile around luton) is adding nothing but distractions to the road ahead.

for someone driving 26 years without an accident or ever having been pulled over to 6 points in the space of a month has me SO angry, 3 more points and i loose my job/home/car/everything because of an over zealous system of camera's and limits.

am i wrong?, should i simply bow down and pay another £100 and accept my 9 points and have to become so aware everywhere i drive that i'll probably lapse in every other area?

The number of speed limit changes is certainly annoying, but legally irrelevant. You are legally required to observe all properly signed or otherwise properly established speed limits. Has something happened in your life recently that has caused you to lose concentration on the task at hand (driving, in this case)? In any case, whilst 26 years without an accident or a ticket is an admirable record, it doesn't seem to impress the magistrates very much.

Back to your case, you have not provided any information that would suggest you have a valid defence to the speeding charge, so naming yourself as the driver in response to the NIP/172 request appears to be your only option. You may consider that "bowing down" if you like, but that is not the only way of looking at it, and I would even venture to say that it is not the best way of looking at the situation you now are in.

--Churchmouse
NewJudge
QUOTE (MrSpot @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 11:47) *
...as i understood the rules were usually 10% +1...


Now the matter seems to have been bottomed out, for future reference I will mention something I did on another thread recently.

The "rules" which you cite (which are actually (Limit + 10% +2mph))are not rules at all. They are guideline excesses at which enforcement normally starts and below which action is not normally taken. They are in place to prevent large numbers of possibly frivolous challenges to the accuracy of measuring devices and methods. The real rules are (Limit + 0% + 0mph) and the guideline allowances do not set a new higher limit.
sunny1542
The lack of clarity on whether a van is car derived or not is quite amazing. It makes 10mph difference on most NSL roads!
MrSpot
Hi, I posted a short while ago with regard to being flashed on the M1 through a variable speed limit. (50 in a 40)

Up to now I had not heard anything or received anything through the post. I assume it had to go to the lease company first, then to me.

The NIP dropped on my doormat today, however, the offence date was 18/11/16 and the NIP i received today was dated the 04/1/17

Thats 48 days after the offence.

do I have the ability to reject on the grounds that I, as the driver, did not receive the NIP as per the road traffic offenders act period of 14 days, or am i likely to fail any kind of rejection based on the fact that the lease company no doubt sat on it for god knows how long.

thanks
Jlc
QUOTE (MrSpot @ Thu, 5 Jan 2017 - 19:24) *
do I have the ability to reject on the grounds that I, as the driver, did not receive the NIP as per the road traffic offenders act period of 14 days

No.

Your thread is here.
MrSpot
ok thanks
StuartBu
QUOTE (MrSpot @ Thu, 5 Jan 2017 - 19:24) *
Hi, I posted a short while ago with regard to being flashed on the M1 through a variable speed limit. (50 in a 40)

Up to now I had not heard anything or received anything through the post. I assume it had to go to the lease company first, then to me.

The NIP dropped on my doormat today, however, the offence date was 18/11/16 and the NIP i received today was dated the 04/1/17

Thats 48 days after the offence.

do I have the ability to reject on the grounds that I, as the driver, did not receive the NIP as per the road traffic offenders act period of 14 days, or am i likely to fail any kind of rejection based on the fact that the lease company no doubt sat on it for god knows how long.

thanks


So this is in addition to the two for speeding you posted about on the 16th December or have I misunderstood?

Others will comment but as I understand it the first NIP is sent to the registered keeper and thats where the 14 days comes in ...it then goes on a journey until,in this case,it gets to you .I guess there could be all sorts of reasons for you not getting it for 48 days after the offence date so I think the answer to both your questions is NO.

What was the outcome of the other offences ?
peterguk
QUOTE (MrSpot @ Thu, 5 Jan 2017 - 19:24) *
do I have the ability to reject on the grounds that I, as the driver, did not receive the NIP as per the road traffic offenders act period of 14 days


No, because the driver is irrelevant. It is the RK who the 14 days applies to.
MrSpot
no, appologies, it was one of the two i posted about, it has taken this long to receive the NIP, also it was 60 in a 50, not 50 in a 40 as i stated above (my mistake)

I admitted to the first and paid the fine, as I will no doubt with this one

thanks

QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 5 Jan 2017 - 19:53) *
QUOTE (MrSpot @ Thu, 5 Jan 2017 - 19:24) *
do I have the ability to reject on the grounds that I, as the driver, did not receive the NIP as per the road traffic offenders act period of 14 days


No, because the driver is irrelevant. It is the RK who the 14 days applies to.



got it, thanks smile.gif
StuartBu
QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 5 Jan 2017 - 19:46) *
QUOTE (MrSpot @ Thu, 5 Jan 2017 - 19:24) *
do I have the ability to reject on the grounds that I, as the driver, did not receive the NIP as per the road traffic offenders act period of 14 days

No.

Your thread is here.


Which refers to a 77 and a 60 speed...this is a 50 in a 40....

"last month, I was caught at a speed of 77mph on a 3 lane section of the A1 up norf, I considered it harsh as i understood the rules were usually 10% +1 - BUT, as it turns out, my van is not classed as car derived (despite being the size of a focus) and the actual limit on this THREE laned section of the A1 is 60mph for a van (an archaic rule which should not apply to a small van IMO, although now i realise thats how it is) - BUT, i accept either way that I was speeding and accept the 3 points and £100 fine.

anyway, this week i receive another NIP:
Caught at 60mph in a variable speed zone of 50mph, between junction 10 and 11 of the M1 . "

EDIT ...Just ignore the above ..Its been explained
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