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Full Version: [NIP Wizard] Can I Ask For Evidence - West Mids, 30mph zone doing 41mph
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obsidian beast
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - December 2016
Date of the NIP: - 10 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 11 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A38 Bristol Road between Speedwell Road and Priory Road, Birmingham - 30mph, UNITED KINDGOM
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - The allegation is that my speed was 41mph in a 30mph zone. NIP states "allegation is supported by photographic/speed detection device evidence".

The direction between the two named roads is Southbound (and this would have been my direction of travel at the time of 07:52 in the morning). The stretch of road has only one camera - a GATSO type, monitoring Northbound traffic. According to the West Mids website, this information is still accurate. There is no camera that I know of monitoring Southbound traffic, and there are no road markings.

Am I able to ask for the photographic evidence referred to on the NIP to ascertain:

a) exactly where this evidence was obtained, and
b) that this isn't an error

WITHOUT having to give any kind of plea with regards to the alleged offence?

If I see the photo and it looks like I'm bang to rights, will it count against me (in terms of points and conditional offer of educational course)? Or will I be able to submit the form on the back of the NIP as if I'd never asked for evidence?


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:18:00 +0000
Jlc
Ask for a photo to assist in the identification of the driver. If they are going to provide one, they will. It will not prejudice how you deal with it. (But the 28 days stand to nominate the driver)
BaggieBoy
According to PocketGPSWorld there is a 30MPH average speed camera (SPECS) section both north and south bound at that location.
Jlc
QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Wed, 4 Jan 2017 - 19:45) *
According to PocketGPSWorld there is a 30MPH average speed camera (SPECS) section both north and south bound at that location.

There's nothing obvious on GSV (June 2016) - but given the distance between the given roads a SPECS system seems to indeed fit.

Article here.

There's unlikely to have been an error.
obsidian beast
Thanks for the article. The NIP just states "automatic camera device", would it say that regardless of whether it was SPECS or some other type of camera?

Because I know there's a GATSO going the other way, someone suggested that it could be a different vehicle had triggered it, and I'd got photographed alongside in error. I don't even know if that's possible though!
Jlc
Gatso's only enforce from the rear so there's no chance they'd issue from a frontal.

The NIP doesn't have to state what type of camera. But the system is average based so the speed was maintained for a considerable period.
Jlc
This system works by ANPR and records the numberplate at given locations and can then perform a time over distance calculation for the speed. It doesn't take a picture of the 'wrong' car...
peterguk
QUOTE (obsidian beast @ Wed, 4 Jan 2017 - 20:35) *
Because I know there's a GATSO going the other way...


Seems like you were caught by an enforcement device you didn't know about.

A SAC should result.
JC Denton
It's SPEC's, its been live since Sept/Oct time last year from memory.

There was another thread about the West Mids SPECS cameras a while back, I think in the Technical Discussion. Basically, there is a pair of cameras the size of coke cans, fitted high up on a pair of lighting columns at either end of the monitored section. The police have 6 or 7 schemes like this now across Brum and Solihull.

Depending on which direction you're travelling the cameras are on the opposite side of the road, so high you could easily miss them (assuming you also miss the signs).

JC
lmr1342
Those new specs cameras have caught allot of people out

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midla...caught-11928025

Unless you know what your looking for its easy to miss them I do belive where you got caught you are not the only one
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