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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
sproot
hi hope these uploaded ok?
another 2 unsigned hopefully successful if my maths is correct just passed 6 months.
no visit from plod.
not gloating just keeping people informed.

john
andy_foster
QUOTE (sproot @ Thu, 15 Dec 2016 - 19:39) *
if my maths is correct


Nope
sproot
is it not 24 weeks from initial date? thought it was .
sgtdixie
6 calendar months - 1 day is the statue barred date, ie the last day to lay the information.
sproot
ahh so one times out tomorrow and other in 2 weeks?
mrtibbs1999
QUOTE (sproot @ Thu, 15 Dec 2016 - 20:12) *
ahh so one times out tomorrow and other in 2 weeks?


Let me get this right, you intentionally tried to time out 2 tickets, screwed the maths up and posted 2 live tickets on here in a way that pretty much guarantees that police Scotland issue charges against you. The photographs have the time and location on them, I genuinely can't believe you have posted them. You are looking at 12 points and a 2k fine as you've admitted intentionally timing them out. Let's hope the entire police Scotland ticket unit went on holiday!
sproot
ahh good point
mrtibbs1999
QUOTE (sproot @ Thu, 15 Dec 2016 - 20:21) *
ahh good point



Also the S.172 requests don't time out until February meaning that they can charge you with the 2 more serious offences until then....
peterguk
QUOTE (mrtibbs1999 @ Thu, 15 Dec 2016 - 20:19) *
You are looking at 12 points and a 2k fine as you've admitted intentionally timing them out.


QUOTE (mrtibbs1999 @ Thu, 15 Dec 2016 - 20:39) *
Also the S.172 requests don't time out until February meaning that they can charge you with the 2 more serious offences until then....


Are you aware of the "unsigned" issue in Scotland?
mrtibbs1999
QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 01:54) *
QUOTE (mrtibbs1999 @ Thu, 15 Dec 2016 - 20:19) *
You are looking at 12 points and a 2k fine as you've admitted intentionally timing them out.


QUOTE (mrtibbs1999 @ Thu, 15 Dec 2016 - 20:39) *
Also the S.172 requests don't time out until February meaning that they can charge you with the 2 more serious offences until then....


Are you aware of the "unsigned" issue in Scotland?



Yes. If they were looking for a test case, one where the defendant gloated about intentionally attempting to time the tickets out would be a good place to start. Whether they prosecute or not is upto Police Scotland, but baiting them is likely not good for him or the forum.
NewJudge
QUOTE (mrtibbs1999 @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 07:33) *
Yes. If they were looking for a test case, one where the defendant gloated about intentionally attempting to time the tickets out would be a good place to start. Whether they prosecute or not is upto Police Scotland, but baiting them is likely not good for him or the forum.


I certainly agree that it is foolish to post gloating messages - particularly when the matters have not been resolved by way of "time out". However, the Scottish authorities have known for long enough of the existence of the loophole which they seem so loathe to have resolved one way or another. The only way they are going to prevent the OP (and others) from gloating is to have the matter addressed properly. Presumably they have sproot's unsigned S172 replies and must at least suspect he is trying to exploit their loophole. In fact his actions cannot seriously be believed to be anything but an intention to deliberately avoid the appropriate penalty. But he's doing nothing that the authorities have not already failed to address in shedloads. His posting on here hardly changes that. They seem singularly unwilling to address this problem. I understand their fear in losing a test case (effectively making it impossible to pursue any speeding prosecutions where driver information is required). They obviously think it is worth tolerating a few sproots north of the border rather than risk a test case similar to the one in England which resulted in a clear ruling in favour of prosecutors. It will take more than a few boastful posts on here to force their hand.
The Rookie
I agree with all of that, apart from being premature I doubt this will have any impact at all.

I would take issue with
QUOTE
In fact his actions cannot seriously be believed to be anything but an intention to deliberately avoid the appropriate penalty
Innocent until proven guilty please......
NewJudge
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 16 Dec 2016 - 13:18) *
Innocent until proven guilty please......

I quite agree with that legal convention (but of course it is just that and not a fact). But I don’t really know how else the OP’s action can be interpreted. He has deliberately returned the S172 requests unsigned. It’s not an oversight or a mistake. He knows that provided the Scottish authorities do not make him their test case and provided he holds his nerve, it is extremely unlikely he will suffer a penalty either for speeding (which he seems not to have denied, or why else go to the bother of going “unsigned”) or for FtF. So it’s not really a case of innocent until proven guilty. It’s a case of “not proven” (a nice Scottish option not available in E&W) because the OP did not provide the evidence needed to support the original offence and the Scottish authorities will not have the “unsigned” matter tested.

There is little doubt that a driver in his situation in England or Wales would face action either for the underlying offence or for FtF (or possibly both, depending how it was progressed). I am not in any way criticising the OP’s course of action. Criticism should be levelled at the Scottish authorities who, in my view, are neglecting their responsibilities to see that the appropriate penalties are levied on those breaking the law. But I fear that, whenever I comment on this issue, I’m straying into “Flame Pit” material and do not want to feel the Moderator’s sharp steel on the back of my neck. rolleyes.gif

Fredd
Enough of the debate about what the Scottish authorities will/should/shouldn't/won't do - this thread's purpose is to help the OP, not debate Scottish government policy (for which there's a conveniently titled section elsewhere...).
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