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nicknotlike
Greetings,

I am hiring a car and in the last couple of days I received a letter (and £30 admin fee) from the car hire company stating they received a NIP and they have provided the Police my details as driver.

They attached a copy of NIP issued by North Yorkshire Police which states the following:

Car recorded at 80 mph which exceeded 70 mph limit on Dual Carrigaway.
Date on NIP which was issued to Car Hire Company: 21/11/2016
Date of alleged offence: 18/11/2016

The offence was over two weeks ago now and I've not received anything myself yet. Is there a deadline the NIP needs to be issued to alleged driver bearing in mind the Car Hire Company has already received one? If I don't receive one do I just sit tight and do nothing?

Also, I recall when talking to someone from I think Lancashire Police a few years back it stated that the speed they started issuing NIPs would be after the max speed plus 10% + 3 mph had been exceeded. So for a 70 mph limit you would need to exceed 70 + 7 + 3 = 80 mph. The car in this case was recorded at 80 mph so that limit wasn't exceeded yet a NIP was still issued. So was that "exceed max speed plus 10% + 3 mph" claim incorrect or has that criteiria changed in the last couple of years perhaps?

I guess this qualifies for a Speed Awareness course which I assume would be the preferred option if offered?

Thanks in advanced.
NickNotLike
The Rookie
The first (and only in terms of legal requirement) NIP has to be served on the registered keeper within 14 days, there is no time limit of any sort for subsequent notices.

Most forces follow ACPO guidance and it's +10%+2mph (not three) for taking action (so a device reading of 79 in a 70 will result in a NIP, courses will almost certainly then be offered for upto +10%+9mph.

Note that a device reading of 80 means a calculated speed of 80.00-80.99mph.

Most people would consider the course the preferred option, but that's a personal decision.
StuartBu
To OP...Given that the original NIP was only issued on 21/11 I wouldn't be concerned that you haven't yet received your one.
I'd be be more aggrieved at the hire company charging £30 for sending back a form which probably took them about 2 minutes.
kezzy
I don't think the hire company can charge for carrying out a legal requirement, as they are seemingly required to answer it by law. they have no need to inform the driver that they have received such notice.
sgtdixie
QUOTE (kezzy @ Sun, 4 Dec 2016 - 15:12) *
I don't think the hire company can charge for carrying out a legal requirement, as they are seemingly required to answer it by law. they have no need to inform the driver that they have received such notice.

Would that not depend on what the contact the driver signed said?
andy_foster
Fulfilling a legal obligation is not good consideration, although once a contract is formed. I'm not so sure that each term must have good consideration flowing from both parties in order to be valid.
nicknotlike
Thanks for all your answers.

Just been looking at the terms on the back of the Car Hire Agreement and it says:

======
7 Charges
We work out our charges using our current price list, which includes VAT (see page 1). You will be responsible for paying the following charges.
a..
b..
c..
d All charges and legal costs for any congestion charge, road-traffic offence or parking offence, or any other offence involving the rental vehicle, including costs from the vehicle being clamped, seized or towed away. You are responsible for paying the appropriate authority or company for any charges and costs if and when they ask for these payments. You will also be responsible for paying our reasonable administration charges for dealing with these matters.
======

There was no page 1 showing current price list so the only indication of cost of admin fee is that it is "reasonable".

I suppose I'll just have to pay this admin fee as arguing what is reasonable probably won't get me anywhere.

Thanks
NickNotLike
nosferatu1001
Get them to justify it

THey cannot charge in excess of their true costs. They must therefore havae calculation of this.
Jlc
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 5 Dec 2016 - 14:34) *
Get them to justify it

THey cannot charge in excess of their true costs. They must therefore havae calculation of this.

Perhaps Beavis applies here? The charge doesn't have to reflect a genuine 'loss'?
andy_foster
The charge in Beavis was a liquidated damages clause (ignoring that there were no damages to liquidate). The amount of the charge here is not specified in the contract.
nosferatu1001
Indeed, plus they claim it as "adminstration" meaning it must be some form of compensation for loss, for which a calcualtion to support it is needed.
nigelbb
The car hire company is legally required to respond to a NIP so any extra admin involved should be seen as part of the normal cost of doing business. The fact that they want to charge the hirer an inflated admin fee is more than a bit cheeky.
Jlc
Indeed, at worst it's 10 minutes and popping the envelope in the post. Even an hour wouldn't exceed £10 or so.
The Rookie
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Mon, 5 Dec 2016 - 17:20) *
The car hire company is legally required to respond to a NIP so any extra admin involved should be seen as part of the normal cost of doing business. The fact that they want to charge the hirer an inflated admin fee is more than a bit cheeky.

I'd disagree completely, why should those who don't get caught speeding subsidise those that do, however I would agree it should be a reasonable charge and should be specified in the contract, they can't have a blank cheque, of course the admin charges may be bundled up in another part of the contract.
nicknotlike
Well I return the hire car tomorrow so I'll ask why they regard £30 as being a "reasonable admin charge" bearing in mind they simply had to respond to the NIP and had no need to inform me of this as I would get NIP in due course. I'm not sure I'll get anywhere though and fear they'll just laugh back at me.
nicknotlike
My NIP has arrived in the post yesterday (07/12/2016) with the letter dated 06/12/2016 and the alleged offence dated 18/11/2016. Bearing in min the hire company had no obligation to inform me, if I had received this NIP without warning then I would have noted that it had arrived over two weeks after the alleged offence and therefore wrongly assumed that they were too late with their notice. So maybe it's for my benefit that the Hire Company alerted me of receipt of NIP, although I suppose I could have just rung them to check after I received NIP.
peterguk
QUOTE (nicknotlike @ Thu, 8 Dec 2016 - 14:46) *
if I had received this NIP without warning then I would have noted that it had arrived over two weeks after the alleged offence and therefore wrongly assumed that they were too late with their notice.


And also remembered you hired the vehicle, not bought it, so were never going to be the recipient of the 1st NIP in the chain.
nicknotlike
Greetings,

I've just realised I have my old address on my driving license. A NIP was delivered to my new address (via a car hire company). If I confirm on NIP that my current name and address are correct then will they be alerted to the address not matching when they (I assume) access my driving license details online to check if I qualify for speed awareness course etc? I have to enter my license details on NIP response form so I assume they check. I can't put my old address because I'm not there if they start sending post to old address.

Not sure how best to deal with this. Any advice much appreciated.
StuartBu
QUOTE (nicknotlike @ Thu, 8 Dec 2016 - 14:53) *
Greetings,

I've just realised I have my old address on my driving license. A NIP was delivered to my new address (via a car hire company). If I confirm on NIP that my current name and address are correct then will they be alerted to the address not matching when they (I assume) access my driving license details online to check if I qualify for speed awareness course etc? I have to enter my license details on NIP response form so I assume they check. I can't put my old address because I'm not there if they start sending post to old address.

Not sure how best to deal with this. Any advice much appreciated.


Just reply as requested and give your current address and also DL details but also update your address with DVLA ..I think you can do it online ..
Do you have a car of your own ..if so has the address on the V5C for it been updated ..if not do that as well ...that has to be done by post
https://www.gov.uk/dvla-change-address

EDIT : Did the hire company not look at your D/L and see that the address was different from what you told them ( or showed some other document ) ?
nicknotlike
Yes the hire company commented on it and said I should get address changed asap which I then put on my list of things to do.

Incidentally, I still own the flat I used to live in, it's just vacant at the moment. I think in the back of my mind I was thinking there was no rush as I could say it is still my address, just not my main one if questioned. Anyway, I'll try and see if I can change it online.

Thanks.
sgtdixie
There is no reason why you must change the address if you still own the property AND can get prompt access to any related mail. But it would be sensible to have your actual current address on your licence.
peterguk
QUOTE (nicknotlike @ Thu, 8 Dec 2016 - 20:13) *
Yes the hire company commented on it and said I should get address changed asap which I then put on my list of things to do.

Incidentally, I still own the flat I used to live in, it's just vacant at the moment. I think in the back of my mind I was thinking there was no rush as I could say it is still my address, just not my main one if questioned. Anyway, I'll try and see if I can change it online.

Thanks.


The law simply requires your DL and V5C address to be an address at which you can be contacted.
nicknotlike
Ah, interesting. Thanks for that. So if the "law simply requires your DL and V5C address to be an address at which you can be contacted" then maybe I don't need to change my address at all.

Thinking ahead, it might get a bit tricky if I move to another new address in future. I see the website asks where I've lived for the past 3 yrs when I go through the online change license address process. I still own my old flat but I've not actually lived there for yonks, more than 3 years ago. I don't know how important that is. Do they bother checking consensus or maybe council tax payees for old address registered? Will they know or even care if I lived in my old flat? However if I say I did live there in the last 3 years then I'm misleading which I suppose could mean I get into more trouble.

Not sure whether to change the address or not now. Am I getting too pedantic?
peterguk
QUOTE (nicknotlike @ Fri, 9 Dec 2016 - 17:59) *
Ah, interesting. Thanks for that. So if the "law simply requires your DL and V5C address to be an address at which you can be contacted" then maybe I don't need to change my address at all.

Thinking ahead, it might get a bit tricky if I move to another new address in future. I see the website asks where I've lived for the past 3 yrs when I go through the online change license address process. I still own my old flat but I've not actually lived there for yonks, more than 3 years ago. I don't know how important that is. Do they bother checking consensus or maybe council tax payees for old address registered? Will they know or even care if I lived in my old flat? However if I say I did live there in the last 3 years then I'm misleading which I suppose could mean I get into more trouble.

Not sure whether to change the address or not now. Am I getting too pedantic?


AFAIK, DVLA don't care how many addresses you've had.

Not sure what the problem is - as i said, the law simply requires your DL and V5C address to be an address at which you can be contacted.

If you can't be reliably contacted at an address (for any reason, e.g. tenants throw mail out, house boarded up etc), then don't use it. Simples.

Why not use the address you live at, seems a good solution for most of the population.
southpaw82
QUOTE (nicknotlike @ Fri, 9 Dec 2016 - 17:59) *
Am I getting too pedantic?

Yes.
nicknotlike
QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 9 Dec 2016 - 18:59) *
Why not use the address you live at, seems a good solution for most of the population.


Ah! If only my life was so simple. I'm a contract worker who works pretty much my whole time away from home sometimes away for six months at a time living in hotels. I'm single so there's no one "home" to monitor post delivered. So I use a relative's address as my correspondence address when I can so that I'm able to be alerted of any urgent post that comes in. Technically I don't live at my relative's address but I have to say I do if I want to use that address.
Tr33hous3
Question about the courses...

Is it one course per county? Or one course every 3 years no matter where you are?

So if your driving lots across the country you could have multiple courses and not points?
peterguk
QUOTE (Tr33hous3 @ Wed, 14 Dec 2016 - 18:14) *
One course every 3 years no matter where you are?


Correct.
The Rookie
Apart from Avon and Somerset who run their own, so if one qualifies the you can do a national course within the same three year period whichever way they overlap.
BaggieBoy
I thought Dorset weren't in the national scheme either, or has that changed?
squaredeal
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 14 Dec 2016 - 19:46) *
Apart from Dorset who run their own, so if one qualifies the you can do a national course within the same three year period whichever way they overlap.

FTFY
andy_foster
Simon was presumably thinking of Avon & Somerset's "Super NIP"
BaggieBoy
I also have a recollection that Wiltshire weren't in the national scheme at one point.
The Rookie
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Thu, 15 Dec 2016 - 00:03) *
Simon was presumably thinking of Avon & Somerset's "Super NIP"

I was, was a long day.
squaredeal
QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Thu, 15 Dec 2016 - 01:37) *
I also have a recollection that Wiltshire weren't in the national scheme at one point.

Correct. But they don't even do local courses like Dorset do.
Churchmouse
QUOTE (Tr33hous3 @ Wed, 14 Dec 2016 - 18:14) *
Question about the courses...

Is it one course per county? Or one course every 3 years no matter where you are?

So if your driving lots across the country you could have multiple courses and not points?

One speeding course within the national scheme and one elsewhere, each three years; you can still do other types of courses, so fill yer boots...

--Churchmouse
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