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ChrisGT
Hi All,

I have just joined this forum in the hope for a bit of advice.

I was caught speeding by an 'automatic camera device' on the M4 motorway on the 07/10/2016 and today (19/11/2016) I received a NIP. On the NIP it says that the 'Notice Issue Date' is the 17/11/2016 - way over the 14 period (41 days infact).

Does anybody believe I have a case to fight the NIP? If it makes any difference, I was doing 85 (on a motorway) and have been given £100 fine and 3 points. I have uploaded a copy of the NIP below.

Thanks in advance

Chris

Click to view attachment
Rallyman72
Can you complete the NIP wizard please - link in my signature.

We need a lot more information before we can advise. A couple of questions though - 1. are you the owner of the car, 2. Have you recently changed address or recently bought the car.
ChrisGT
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - October 2016
Date of the NIP: - 41 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 43 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M4 Junction 19-20 Westbound, S.Glos
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Caught doing 85 on the M4 by and overhead 'automatic camera device'

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The first NIP to the Registered Keeper must arrive within 14 days unless there is a valid reason why that was not possible, for example a recent change of details.

    This link will take you to the advice provided by the RAC's legal team.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:34:55 +0000

QUOTE (Rallyman72 @ Sat, 19 Nov 2016 - 18:22) *
Can you complete the NIP wizard please - link in my signature.

We need a lot more information before we can advise. A couple of questions though - 1. are you the owner of the car, 2. Have you recently changed address or recently bought the car.


NIP Wizard completed. Yes I am the registered owner of the car (Since Sept 2015). I did move house on the 1st October this year, but would have expected the NIP to be delivered when I was at my previous address as this was within the 14 days.

I guess by you're user name you are into rallying, I'm a rally driver too (not that I should shout about that on a forum / topic like this!)

Thanks

Chris
The Rookie
There are two obvious explanations for the late NIP.

1/ this is a reminder (normally sent circa 28 days after the first) and not the first NIP.
2/ you were not showing as the registered keeper when the Police made the enquiry, have you recently bought the car or moved house, have you checked the V5C registration document, is it all correct and what is the 'docref' date towards the bottom of page two which is when the details shown were entered onto the DVLA database.

It's not a motability, lease or a car in finance where the finance co may show as registered keeper?

Noting your EDIT, what is the docref date? If you moved on 1st October then a NIP sent for an offence in October would very likely go to your old address?
ChrisGT
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 19 Nov 2016 - 18:42) *
There are two obvious explanations for the late NIP.

1/ this is a reminder (normally sent circa 28 days after the first) and not the first NIP.

How would I know this is a reminder? Surely it should have some sort of note saying 'copy' or 'reminder' on it?

2/ you were not showing as the registered keeper when the Police made the enquiry, have you recently bought the car or moved house, have you checked the V5C registration document, is it all correct and what is the 'docref' date towards the bottom of page two which is when the details shown were entered onto the DVLA database.

The car has been registered to me since Sept 2015.

It's not a motability, lease or a car in finance where the finance co may show as registered keeper?

No, the car is owned outright by myself.

Noting your EDIT, what is the docref date? If you moved on 1st October then a NIP sent for an offence in October would very likely go to your old address?

Just looked at the doc ref on the V5c and it is 17/10/16


southpaw82
Is the DOCREF date after the date you were caught speeding?
andy_foster
QUOTE (ChrisGT @ Sat, 19 Nov 2016 - 18:16) *
I was caught speeding by an 'automatic camera device' on the M4 motorway on the 07/10/2016


QUOTE (ChrisGT @ Sat, 19 Nov 2016 - 18:40) *
[NIP Wizard completed. Yes I am the registered owner of the car (Since Sept 2015). I did move house on the 1st October this year, but would have expected the NIP to be delivered when I was at my previous address as this was within the 14 days.


QUOTE (ChrisGT @ Sat, 19 Nov 2016 - 18:58) *
Just looked at the doc ref on the V5c and it is 17/10/16


You moved house on 01/10/2016, the alleged offence was on 07/10/2016, and you expected the NIP to have been served at your old address while you were still there 6 days before the offence?

QUOTE
I [...] have been given £100 fine and 3 points.


No you haven't. The NIP/s. 172 might have included a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty, but unless you have sent off your licence and paid the penalty, you have not been given a fine or points.

Jlc
It's A&S 'super NIP'. (The CoFP is conveniently included if the RK was driving)
Jlc
When the Police queried the RK's address (a few days after the offence) then the DVLA had not updated your record with your new address. It seems the 1st NIP went to your old address.

It's perhaps fortunate they have been advised or realised as you could have had been prosecuted without your knowledge for a failing to furnish.

Regardless, the s172 (name the driver) is valid even if there was a 'late' NIP.
ChrisGT
QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 19 Nov 2016 - 19:21) *
It's A&S 'super NIP'. (The CoFP is conveniently included if the RK was driving)


Sorry, what does A&S stand for?
Jlc
Avon & Somerset.
southpaw82
Avon & Somerset [Police].
ChrisGT
Thanks, so do you think it's worth disputing / trying to find out if they possibly sent an NIP to my previous address? Or just accept the fine and points offer?
southpaw82
I don't think it's worth disputing, no. It's highly unlikely that they issued the first NIP late.
The Rookie
You can ask them of course, they will almost certainly just say a NIP was issued as required (with no further details), would it be worth gamblingon taking it to court given the extra costs involved? No.
andy_foster
If the OP knew where he used to live, he could try contacting the new residents and asking them if a NIP was received.
Rallyman72
Chris

Motorsport for 45 years! That dates me.

Edit - deleted what I wrote before and noted the DOCREF date is 17/10/16 - the original documents will have gone to your old address. No postal redirect then. You're lucky that the force on my old patch have apparently updated their RK check.
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