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Zapata
Hi Guys, I received a PCN from Westminster on Feb 28th 2006. I wrote to them by email stating that the 4 minutes I was over time should have been ignored as I was a Blue Badge holder and some discretion should have been allowed. I sent the number of my certificate, date of expiry etc. I received no reply from their adjudication office in London. The badge was displayed.

Yesterday I received a "Notice to Owner" from their parking services in Warrington telling me not to ignore the Notice and pay them £100 pounds. This letter is dated April 19th 2006. They also state I have 28 days to pay or make "representations".

The PCN has that was issued has the usual "flaws". "You", No Date of Offence, Date of Issue. The only date is seen at location.........

Wayne Pendle has said that PATAS has recently adjudicated against Westminster so are they just trying to force me to pay £100 pounds on the basis I may have not seen the adjudication ?

Can someone please let me have a template of a letter so that I can respond to this Notice to Owner ?

Thanks people,

Rgds
Zapata
DW190
QUOTE (Zapata @ Sun, 23 Apr 2006 - 15:26) *
Hi Guys, I received a PCN from Westminster on Feb 28th 2006. I wrote to them by email stating that the 4 minutes I was over time should have been ignored as I was a Blue Badge holder and some discretion should have been allowed. I sent the number of my certificate, date of expiry etc. I received no reply from their adjudication office in London. The badge was displayed.

Yesterday I received a "Notice to Owner" from their parking services in Warrington telling me not to ignore the Notice and pay them £100 pounds. This letter is dated April 19th 2006. They also state I have 28 days to pay or make "representations".

The PCN has that was issued has the usual "flaws". "You", No Date of Offence, Date of Issue. The only date is seen at location.........

Wayne Pendle has said that PATAS has recently adjudicated against Westminster so are they just trying to force me to pay £100 pounds on the basis I may have not seen the adjudication ?

Can someone please let me have a template of a letter so that I can respond to this Notice to Owner ?

Thanks people,



Rgds
Zapata



The notice to owner should tell you how to make representations.

I've not much time on my hands but would say very simply,

The PCN numberXXXX fails to comply with the statutory prescribed requirements.

The PCN refers to "You" instead of (search and put the wording) and does not show a date of issue, it is therefore unenforcable as is supported by the decision in (Cases that apply)

I think Bury v McArthy & Als Bar v Wandsworth are the cases.

HiHo HiHo its off to work I go.
Wayne Pendle
Alternatively goto http://www.appealnow.com and for seven quid Barry will provide you with one.
g_attrill
It might be worth just replying and mentioning that you know the date of issue problem and would appeal on those grounds - they might drop it just to save the time of defending the ticket.

Gareth
Zapata
QUOTE (g_attrill @ Sun, 23 Apr 2006 - 21:14) *
It might be worth just replying and mentioning that you know the date of issue problem and would appeal on those grounds - they might drop it just to save the time of defending the ticket.

Gareth


Hi Gareth,

I wrote to the "representation" address this morning. Basically informed them City of Westminster has recently lost an adjudication regarding the wording on their PCN and that their notices fail to comply with statutory requirements and I have drawn their attention to:

Bury v MacArthur
Barnet v Moses
Tower Hamlets v Friedman
Lambeth v Poole and
Westminster v Aldridge. for good measure I also included Als Bar v Wandsworth.

I have stated that as the registered owner of the vehicle I intend to appeal to PATAS citing specific case law obtained from the above.

I signed the representation form but did not tick any boxes as none of the boxes met the criteria. I wrote "see attached letter" on the form and signed and dated it. I await the next phase !

Rgds
Zapata
Wayne Pendle
QUOTE
Hi Gareth,

I wrote to the "representation" address this morning. Basically informed them City of Westminster has recently lost an adjudication regarding the wording on their PCN and that their notices fail to comply with statutory requirements and I have drawn their attention to:

Bury v MacArthur
Barnet v Moses
Tower Hamlets v Friedman
Lambeth v Poole and
Westminster v Aldridge. for good measure I also included Als Bar v Wandsworth.

I have stated that as the registered owner of the vehicle I intend to appeal to PATAS citing specific case law obtained from the above.

I signed the representation form but did not tick any boxes as none of the boxes met the criteria. I wrote "see attached letter" on the form and signed and dated it. I await the next phase !

Rgds
Zapata



Zapata,

For reference, there's no such thing as a registered owner, only a registered keeper. You should tick "the contravention never occured" or "other" if the NTO allows for this, it's not case law, it's a adjudication and the two are not the same. If and likely when, the case goes to adjudication, you will need to read and understand the text within those decisions and understand what is being said and present the facts to the adjudicator. Good luck, hope it goes well. smile.gif
DW190
QUOTE
and present the facts to the adjudicator.


Bet you a penny it dont get that far.
Wayne Pendle
QUOTE (DW190 @ Mon, 24 Apr 2006 - 21:40) *
QUOTE
and present the facts to the adjudicator.


Bet you a penny it dont get that far.



ah DW190, ever the optimist smile.gif
Zapata
QUOTE (Wayne Pendle @ Mon, 24 Apr 2006 - 18:15) *
QUOTE

Hi Gareth,

I wrote to the "representation" address this morning. Basically informed them City of Westminster has recently lost an adjudication regarding the wording on their PCN and that their notices fail to comply with statutory requirements and I have drawn their attention to:

Bury v MacArthur
Barnet v Moses
Tower Hamlets v Friedman
Lambeth v Poole and
Westminster v Aldridge. for good measure I also included Als Bar v Wandsworth.

I have stated that as the registered owner of the vehicle I intend to appeal to PATAS citing specific case law obtained from the above.

I signed the representation form but did not tick any boxes as none of the boxes met the criteria. I wrote "see attached letter" on the form and signed and dated it. I await the next phase !

Rgds
Zapata



Zapata,

For reference, there's no such thing as a registered owner, only a registered keeper. You should tick "the contravention never occured" or "other" if the NTO allows for this, it's not case law, it's a adjudication and the two are not the same. If and likely when, the case goes to adjudication, you will need to read and understand the text within those decisions and understand what is being said and present the facts to the adjudicator. Good luck, hope it goes well. smile.gif


Thanks Wayne, will amend documents before sending. I did read the cases as well but feel that Westminster will opt for adjudication. Whether it gets that far I do not know but I will have my "ducks lined up".

Rgds
Zapata
Wayne Pendle
QUOTE (Zapata @ Tue, 25 Apr 2006 - 11:35) *
QUOTE (Wayne Pendle @ Mon, 24 Apr 2006 - 18:15) *

QUOTE

Hi Gareth,

I wrote to the "representation" address this morning. Basically informed them City of Westminster has recently lost an adjudication regarding the wording on their PCN and that their notices fail to comply with statutory requirements and I have drawn their attention to:

Bury v MacArthur
Barnet v Moses
Tower Hamlets v Friedman
Lambeth v Poole and
Westminster v Aldridge. for good measure I also included Als Bar v Wandsworth.

I have stated that as the registered owner of the vehicle I intend to appeal to PATAS citing specific case law obtained from the above.

I signed the representation form but did not tick any boxes as none of the boxes met the criteria. I wrote "see attached letter" on the form and signed and dated it. I await the next phase !

Rgds
Zapata



Zapata,

For reference, there's no such thing as a registered owner, only a registered keeper. You should tick "the contravention never occured" or "other" if the NTO allows for this, it's not case law, it's a adjudication and the two are not the same. If and likely when, the case goes to adjudication, you will need to read and understand the text within those decisions and understand what is being said and present the facts to the adjudicator. Good luck, hope it goes well. smile.gif


Thanks Wayne, will amend documents before sending. I did read the cases as well but feel that Westminster will opt for adjudication. Whether it gets that far I do not know but I will have my "ducks lined up".

Rgds
Zapata




Tophole mate, hope it goes well for you.
Zapata
QUOTE (Wayne Pendle @ Tue, 25 Apr 2006 - 18:23) *
QUOTE (Zapata @ Tue, 25 Apr 2006 - 11:35) *

QUOTE (Wayne Pendle @ Mon, 24 Apr 2006 - 18:15) *

QUOTE

Hi Gareth,

I wrote to the "representation" address this morning. Basically informed them City of Westminster has recently lost an adjudication regarding the wording on their PCN and that their notices fail to comply with statutory requirements and I have drawn their attention to:

Bury v MacArthur
Barnet v Moses
Tower Hamlets v Friedman
Lambeth v Poole and
Westminster v Aldridge. for good measure I also included Als Bar v Wandsworth.

I have stated that as the registered owner of the vehicle I intend to appeal to PATAS citing specific case law obtained from the above.

I signed the representation form but did not tick any boxes as none of the boxes met the criteria. I wrote "see attached letter" on the form and signed and dated it. I await the next phase !

Rgds
Zapata



Zapata,

For reference, there's no such thing as a registered owner, only a registered keeper. You should tick "the contravention never occured" or "other" if the NTO allows for this, it's not case law, it's a adjudication and the two are not the same. If and likely when, the case goes to adjudication, you will need to read and understand the text within those decisions and understand what is being said and present the facts to the adjudicator. Good luck, hope it goes well. smile.gif


Thanks Wayne, will amend documents before sending. I did read the cases as well but feel that Westminster will opt for adjudication. Whether it gets that far I do not know but I will have my "ducks lined up".

Rgds
Zapata




Tophole mate, hope it goes well for you.


Wayne, just a quick one. Is there mileage in the "Notice to Owner" because they get the address from the DVLA and they store the addresses of the Registered Keeper - not necessarily the owner ? The owner could be anyone including a company so how can that be exploited ?

Rgds
Zapata
Zapata
Finally a result!!
Thanks to all who have helped and provided assistance in the weeks and months that have passed. The story started in February this year when I received a parking ticket in Shepherds Market in London. I wrote asking the council to dismiss the 4 minutes overtime (blue badge holder). Council declined - received NTO fine now £150 quid. Appealed to Patas citing invalid ticket, Jackson etc. Patas would not make a ruling and hearing scheduled for October. Then today: Letter from PATAS.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

V

City of Westminster.

Vehicle Registration Number: XXXXXXXXXXXXX
Penalty Charge Notice: XXXXXXXXXXXXX

The City of Westminster has informed me that they will not contest your appeal against the Penalty Charge Notice above.

The Adjudicator has therefore allowed your appeal without considering your evidence or any details of the case. You are not liable for any further charge(s) and, where appropriate, any amounts already paid will be refunded by the Council.

If you asked for an appointment with the ASdjudicator it is cancelled and you should not attend.

Yours sincerely,

Miss C. Axelson
Head of Parking and Traffic Appeals Services.

It looks as if Westminster have folded and are trying to limit the exposure they will undoubtably get in the press. It will also limit costs.

Camden next - RESTITUTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rgds
Zapata
Wayne Pendle
Hangon a minute

"You are not liable for any further charge(s) and, where appropriate, any amounts already paid will be refunded by the Council."

Whilst we have to look at this in context, this is quite an interesting statement for them to make nevertheless.
Zapata
QUOTE (Wayne Pendle @ Fri, 29 Sep 2006 - 15:00) *
Hangon a minute

"You are not liable for any further charge(s) and, where appropriate, any amounts already paid will be refunded by the Council."

Whilst we have to look at this in context, this is quite an interesting statement for them to make nevertheless.


Hi Wayne,I have now received a letter from Westminster Council (2nd post)

Case reference:XXXXXX

I refer to the Notice of Appeal form you have submitted to the Parking and Traffic Appeals Service in regards to the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).

The City Council has decided not to contest your appeal due to technical reason. The PCN has been cancelled and you are no longer liable for the payment of the charge. The Parking and Traffic Appeals Service will confirm this in writing.

If you have requested a personal hearing, you no longer need to attaend.

Youts sincerely,
XXXXXXXX
For and on behalf of Parking Services, City of Westminster.

Good to know that the ruling in the High Court is a "technical reason" and also that the nice people in Westminster and PATAS are talking to each other !. It would appear that PATAS and the Council are are looking at possible refunds and we should all push this hard.

Rgds
Zapata
g_attrill
Write back and ask them what the technical reason was. I think the FOI Act might help here.
Wayne Pendle
Ah yes, Council speak for failing to comply with the law is a technicality, for us we're plain and simply breaking the law.

QUOTE
Write back and ask them what the technical reason was. I think the FOI Act might help here


{good idea Gareth}
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