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PCNdispute
Hi,

I am a new member.. and I was advised to join the forum from
a online website "Dealing With Ballifs"

I had received a PCN about a year ago...at a time when I was in a major family crisis and time of great stress...and I had also been ill and not long out of Hospital.. and the last thing that I was concerned about was a parking ticket. or reading related letters..

The ticket was for not displaying a Parking Permit on Football day events at the local football match dates.

I did however manage to write in to the council to explain my reasons.

I then had many related things to deal with in regards to the family crisis..that went on for weeks / months and could have ended up in loosing the property...I had since forgot all about the Parking ticket and I did think I had covered myself.

During the time, I did not look at my post and had not read letters that I did not see as important at the time..and I still thought that I had been covered.

Then a few days ago ,I got two opened red worded letters that had been posted thru my post box... that did get my attention.. and to my dismay it was from a Enforcement officer in relation to the Parking ticket. one letter was a "24 hr notice" and the 2nd letter was a "demand to pay"...and the Fee was very high....£422 for a £70 initial PCN ticket.

I contacted the company that it came from to make enquiries as to what was going on.. as I have never had this happen before...I later found that If I had not paid that day by 5 pm that Id missed the deadline to pay..The ticket had then gone up to a total of £532..

I spoke with the Balliff / enforcement officer and he said that as I had not paid or agreed to pay.. that he would take goods worth that amount.. and has said he will take my car.

I then had no idea what would happen next day or when he may arrive.. but I had little time to consider it all.. and it was a shock and of some stress trying to find out about the situation and it was on a Late Friday...and I thought he may come at 8 am next day..


To cut the story initially short... I then did a series of enquiries to try to investigate...which fortunately I was able to do..... as if he had arrived and I had not done so.. I would not have known what to expect ...or what to do or consider.

I decided to move my car initally out of my street.. and later found out from someone that it was best to move it further away....which I did...

Since then I have been able to do a LOT of research into it all..BUT I am very sorry to say.. that it appears to all have been a waste of time..

I have now found that if I did not reply or appeal to an earlier part in the letter process after the Council pass the debt on...to the Traffic Enforcement Center....

in what is a "Notice of Enforcement" sent by the "Traffic enforcement center"...
that if you had not appealed by a set time.. that basically you have missed to chance to appeal in any way..
and there for have no other option but to pay..

Having looked back since at some letters that I have managed to find that was sent to me that I had not read.. I think that the various parts of the letter process has been done correctly to the system from research that I have done so far..
So I am very sorry to say that I see now way out.. but totally disagree to paying what I see as a well over expensive fee that I cannot afford..

I am told its not a prison offence....if one does not pay..BUT I am not really sure if I am able to hold off any balliff's entering my house. to take any goods...I believe that maybe possible...maybe just for something like a parking ticket..

but then I am told that it may go back to the council and they will then try and find other ways to obtain payment..such as from employers etc..but not everyone works...so what then... I believe one will get CCJs..

but that may not be too much an issue compared to loosing goods or ones money to them... if one needs the money is difficult times.

I have managed to put my car on Private land...in what I think is an ok area..so they cannot take the car from what I have researched..Im not sure if I can also park it on a neighbors driveway or a relatives drive way..and not sure if they could follow you and pull you over if detected..

they use ANPR automated Number plate recognition.. systems that report to them when a camera spots the cars registration..
The ONE thing that I can see that the balliff has not done correctly was he did not put a date on his hand delivered letters..for the 24 hr notice and demand payment...

Upon speaking in some detail with the "Traffic Enforcement center"...TEC...
They have said that I could send in whats known as a "Out of Time extension"..
that is if you had not delt with a prior TEC part of the process...

That can then give one maybe a 4 to 8 week period where it is investigated..
and the Balliffs have to stop proceedings until it is completed for that time..

But it is NOT any sort of actual further appeal in ref to the main incident..
Its just checking some part of the process....that only in very rare cases such
as if its found.. that a certain letter had not been sent that they may then consider
dropping the case..if one has said for eg that they do not recall seeing a certain document or letter...

its worth applying and saying that you dont recall doing so as they will then have to investigate and it takes several weeks..

If however they have your car... they will not let you have it back.. during the investiagtion period ..and unless you pay or win the case...So one has to try to hide ones car and put in a right place..and send in the form as soon as possible...
thats the stage i am at at the moment..

If anyone may be able to offer me any further hope..things to consider or ways out
of paying..

I would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

PCNdispute
Bailiff Advice
QUOTE (PCNdispute @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 01:18) *
Hi,

I am a new member.. and I was advised to join the forum from a online website "Dealing With Ballifs"

I had received a PCN about a year ago...at a time when I was in a major family crisis and time of great stress...and I had also been ill and not long out of Hospital.. and the last thing that I was concerned about was a parking ticket. or reading related letters..

The ticket was for not displaying a Parking Permit on Football day.

I did however manage to write in to the council to explain my reasons.

I then had many related things to deal with in regards to the family crisis..that went on for weeks / months and could have ended up in loosing the property...I had since forgot all about the Parking ticket and I did think I had covered myself.

During the time, I did not look at my post and had not read letters that I did not see as important at the time..and I still thought that I had been covered.

Since then I have been able to do a LOT of research into it all..BUT I am very sorry to say.. that it appears to all have been a waste of time..

Having looked back since at some letters that I have managed to find that was sent to me that I had not read.. I think that the various parts of the letter process has been done correctly to the system from research that I have done so far..

So I am very sorry to say that I see now way out.. but totally disagree to paying what I see as a well over expensive fee that I cannot afford..

but then I am told that it may go back to the council and they will then try and find other ways to obtain payment..such as from employers etc..but not everyone works...so what then... I believe one will get CCJs..

I have managed to put my car on Private land...in what I think is an ok area..so they cannot take the car from what I have researched..Im not sure if I can also park it on a neighbors driveway or a relatives drive way..and not sure if they could follow you and pull you over if detected..

they use ANPR automated Number plate recognition.. systems that report to them when a camera spots the cars registration..
The ONE thing that I can see that the balliff has not done correctly was he did not put a date on his hand delivered letters..for the 24 hr notice and demand payment...

Upon speaking in some detail with the "Traffic Enforcement center"...TEC...They have said that I could send in whats known as a "Out of Time extension"..
that is if you had not delt with a prior TEC part of the process...

its worth applying and saying that you dont recall doing so as they will then have to investigate and it takes several weeks..

If anyone may be able to offer me any further hope..things to consider or ways out of paying..


I have tried to shorten your query so that it only deals with whether or not you received the statutory notices (which you appear to have done).

You have stated that you received the penalty charge notice (presumably on the car) and that you then wrote to the council. You have not mentioned whether they responded.

You say that TEC have stated that you can file an Out of Time application 'if you had not dealt with a prior TEC part of the process'. This is not correct at all. You can ONLY file an Out of Time if you had not received the Notice to Owner or the parking ticket on the vehicle or you had appealed the PCN and had not received a formal Notice of Rejection.

In your case, you HAD received the ticket and furthermore, you wrote to the council. Therefore you cannot submit the OOT on this ground.

The only other ground that you could possibly use is that you had not received a Notice of Rejection. I am not altogether comfortable that you can use this ground either, but will wait to see what the experts view on this is.

In the meantime, can you post back to let us know whether the council replied to your letter.


www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk
Neil B
QUOTE (Bailiff Advice @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 08:21) *
The only other ground that you could possibly use is that you had not received a Notice of Rejection. I am not altogether comfortable that you can use this ground either, but will wait to see what the experts view on this is.

It isn't yet clear at what stage he/she wrote to the Council; in direct response to PCN = No, in response to a later received NtO = Yes.

QUOTE (Bailiff Advice @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 08:21) *
You can ONLY file an Out of Time if you had not received the Notice to Owner

Again, lack of detail from OP at mo. Docs received but not which.

QUOTE (PCNdispute @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 01:18) *
I then had many related things to deal with in regards to the family crisis..that went on for weeks / months and could have ended up in loosing the property...I had since forgot all about the Parking ticket and I did think I had covered myself.

During the time, I did not look at my post and had not read letters that I did not see as important at the time..and I still thought that I had been covered.

Sheila.
Could this not qualify as non-receipt of docs? Perhaps if medical records support?

-
-

Just @ BAO for general reference.

QUOTE (Bailiff Advice @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 08:21) *
You can ONLY file an Out of Time if you had not received the Notice to Owner or the parking ticket on the vehicle

Wholly incorrect in red matey.
peterguk
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 08:56) *
Could this not qualify as non-receipt of docs?


If the recipient of items of mail has not opened them, then how can they say they have not received them?

The sender will have proof of postage and will be able to rely in the I.A. for service. The recipeint has no idea whether received or not so can only say they haven't seen them, as opposed to haven't received them.

If i flash a Gatso, and don't open any mail for 14 days, i doubt that will act as a defence when i am charged with FtF.
Neil B
QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 09:55) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 08:56) *
Could this not qualify as non-receipt of docs?


If the recipient of items of mail has not opened them, then how can they say they have not received them?

Service has been prevented?

QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 09:55) *
If i flash a Gatso, and don't open any mail for 14 days, i doubt that will act as a defence when i am charged with FtF.

I have greater faith in the humanity of our justice system: Hopefully it would depend where you were, in all senses, when documents 'arrive'.
Can a blind person be said to have been served an NtO when it arrives?
peterguk
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 10:05) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 09:55) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 08:56) *
Could this not qualify as non-receipt of docs?


If the recipient of items of mail has not opened them, then how can they say they have not received them?

Service has been prevented?

QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 09:55) *
If i flash a Gatso, and don't open any mail for 14 days, i doubt that will act as a defence when i am charged with FtF.

I have greater faith in the humanity of our justice system: Hopefully it would depend where you were, in all senses, when documents 'arrive'.
Can a blind person be said to have been served an NtO when it arrives?


Interesting question. I'd say yes.
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 10:18) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 10:05) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 09:55) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 08:56) *
Could this not qualify as non-receipt of docs?


If the recipient of items of mail has not opened them, then how can they say they have not received them?

Service has been prevented?

QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 09:55) *
If i flash a Gatso, and don't open any mail for 14 days, i doubt that will act as a defence when i am charged with FtF.

I have greater faith in the humanity of our justice system: Hopefully it would depend where you were, in all senses, when documents 'arrive'.
Can a blind person be said to have been served an NtO when it arrives?


Interesting question. I'd say yes.


UCHR article 6(3)(a) Everyone charged with a criminal offence has the following minimum rights: (a) to be informed promptly,
in a language which he understands and in detail, of the nature and cause of the accusation against him;

I would say not
Neil B
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 10:29) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 10:18) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 10:05) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 09:55) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 08:56) *
Could this not qualify as non-receipt of docs?


If the recipient of items of mail has not opened them, then how can they say they have not received them?

Service has been prevented?

QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 09:55) *
If i flash a Gatso, and don't open any mail for 14 days, i doubt that will act as a defence when i am charged with FtF.

I have greater faith in the humanity of our justice system: Hopefully it would depend where you were, in all senses, when documents 'arrive'.
Can a blind person be said to have been served an NtO when it arrives?


Interesting question. I'd say yes.


UCHR article 6(3)(a) Everyone charged with a criminal offence has the following minimum rights: (a) to be informed promptly,
in a language which he understands and in detail, of the nature and cause of the accusation against him;

I would say not

Might surprise you but I'd say yes.
The reason being that someone with impaired or no vision will have mechanisms in place to deal with incoming mail; e.g. friends and family.

There is, however, a great difference between someone with such a permanent disability and someone experiencing shorter
term difficulties, as here, who will have no such established mechanisms to assist them in similar situations.
Blindness, as the example, is subjective: It may not necessarily be a direct failure of sight but sometimes an inability to look.
QUOTE (PCNdispute @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 01:18) *
I then had many related things to deal with in regards to the family crisis..that went on for weeks / months and could have ended up in loosing the property...I had since forgot all about the Parking ticket and I did think I had covered myself.

During the time, I did not look at my post and had not read letters that I did not see as important at the time..and I still thought that I had been covered.




PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 10:54) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 10:29) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 10:18) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 10:05) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 09:55) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 08:56) *
Could this not qualify as non-receipt of docs?


If the recipient of items of mail has not opened them, then how can they say they have not received them?

Service has been prevented?

QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 09:55) *
If i flash a Gatso, and don't open any mail for 14 days, i doubt that will act as a defence when i am charged with FtF.

I have greater faith in the humanity of our justice system: Hopefully it would depend where you were, in all senses, when documents 'arrive'.
Can a blind person be said to have been served an NtO when it arrives?


Interesting question. I'd say yes.


UCHR article 6(3)(a) Everyone charged with a criminal offence has the following minimum rights: (a) to be informed promptly,
in a language which he understands and in detail, of the nature and cause of the accusation against him;

I would say not

Might surprise you but I'd say yes.
The reason being that someone with impaired or no vision will have mechanisms in place to deal with incoming mail; e.g. friends and family.

There is, however, a great difference between someone with such a permanent disability and someone experiencing shorter
term difficulties, as here, who will have no such established mechanisms to assist them in similar situations.
Blindness, as the example, is subjective: It may not necessarily be a direct failure of sight but sometimes an inability to look.
QUOTE (PCNdispute @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 01:18) *
I then had many related things to deal with in regards to the family crisis..that went on for weeks / months and could have ended up in loosing the property...I had since forgot all about the Parking ticket and I did think I had covered myself.

During the time, I did not look at my post and had not read letters that I did not see as important at the time..and I still thought that I had been covered.



i don't disagree with your sentiments on this in debating a way the OP can legally file a stat dec, and not the place for a debate on semantics of the law
PCNdispute
Thank you fellow members for your replies.

NO I have not as yet found the reply in ref to my Initial letter...

Upon speaking with the Council, they have told me that they have replied to my initial letter of my explanation...
(not sure if that is classed as an appeal letter or just a 1st reply) but so far I have not as yet come across it...
As during that time the house had prior been turned upside down due to some prior work..(new Electics via a council grant) and everying was a mess

In ref to the applying or appealing for what I think is referred to as FORM TEC 7..."OUT OF TIME" form that also has to be sent with what I think is a Witness statement unpaid penalty charge TEC 9 Form..

I did speak with someone at the Traffic Enforcement center ( TEC) on 2 or 3 occasions about whether or not I was able to apply for anything further..and I was told different things.. Initially It was suggest that I could apply for the Out of time / extension... and it was suggested that I include my prior reasons in ref to my situations.... ie Family crisis , inability to cope due to mental stress etc..

But I happened to call them again to ask another question and the conversation with the next adviser was different ..
I thought that He said ... that I could only apply if I had not replied in the earlier stages when the TEC send out form TEC 9 Witness statement of unpaid penalty charge ...and TEC 3 form "Order for recovery of unpaid penalty charge" in what is part of the standard process that happens after the council pass the debt on to the TEC in the letter stages of the process.

This has to be done by a given date !

BUT....ALL BEFORE the BAiLLIFF stage where the fine is still at £112...

Dealing with the OUT of time form only happens after the baillifs are involved as I think I understand..

and in form TEC 9 there are 4 options which to tick..

1 if you did not recieve a Notice to owner PCN..
2, if you did not receive a rejection notice..to ones initial letter / apeaal with in 28 days.
3, if one appealed to the rejection notice and did not get a reply.
4 if the PCN was paid in full.

In my case as I had NOT noticed or opened any letters, I was UNAWARE if I had a reply or if I had received a notice of rejection to my initial representation ....(and only later had spoke with the council who said that they had replied..)
BUT I have yet to find that letter...

SO I was told I could select that option. ie Option 2 in the above list...

Then for the Out of time form T7...I was told that I could give a reason.. that I think referred to not having further appealed in the earlier stages in ref to the TEC stage in the letter process.. (Prior to Bailiffs being involved)

I have not as yet checked, but I can see on my initial appeal letter to them...(1st reply to them after PCN) that I have referred that I had not long come out of hospital...but I cant recall the exact date as yet when that was..

I was not under any DOCTORS for any specific medical condition..or on record for any prior similar condition that I may have had at that time....

One reason is I did not want anything on my medical records.. even though I may believe that I should be able to have some help..but I am fearful of medications that they may offer and once mental issues go on ones records.. that can cause other issues in jobs etc...

but stress can cause all sort of things and its hard to define as to how it effects us.. in my case my mind was struggling to cope with normal things...like dealing with letters..

Hope this helps.

PS,

As Bailffs want to target ones vehicle initially.. I have found that you can park it on private or is it public land or a neighbors driveway.. and they cannot take your car...

I am told ANPR Number plate recognition cameras be it on the road or with special vehicles driving around alert bailliffs..where ones car maybe hidden..

Does anyone know if you can park on a relatives or family members driveway ? similar to the neighbors driveway where they cannot take your car ! ?

Also if say you get detected driving ones car by a ANRC../ and Bailliff s get Alerted and track you ..can they follow you and wait to try to get you if you park.... or could one drive from one place to another and not be stopped as long as they park back on the right place where they cannot take your car..

such as driving from a private car park to a relatives or neighbors or friends driveway ..


JUST FOUND THIS AFTER I WROTE THE ABOVE ..............

It suggest that you can park a a vehicle on a Relatives driveway...

if you have parked it on Private land.... and they are aware of it.. they can apply for a warrant to remove it.
I am not sure if they can get a warrant to remove it from a Relatives driveway ?

Otherwise if one can find some various places that are private land.. it seems best o try to move it from one location to the next after a few days...

Can one park it Ok in say a supermarket type of car park.... (That does not restrict how many hours you can park)


QUOTE
Where can bailiffs take a vehicle from?

A bailiff can only usually take a vehicle from these three places:

your home
your place of trade or business
the public highway.
The bailiff can't usually take your vehicle if it is parked on private land, other than your home or place of trade or business. This means that if your car is parked in one of the following places, the bailiff is unlikely to be able to take it:

a car park, whether this is private or publicly owned
the driveway of a family member or friend
a garage away from your home
a storage unit away from your home
a piece of land belonging to someone else.
The exception to this is where the bailiff has got a court warrant allowing them to take your belongings in that location. A bailiff is only likely to be able to get a court warrant if they have watched these premises and discovered you're parking your car there regularly. They're unlikely to get a warrant if they've just noticed that your car is somewhere else.

If a bailiff has begun to take control of your vehicle in a place where they're allowed to, you can't drive it away in an attempt to stop them taking it


https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-...s-and-bailiffs/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Park it on a neighbours driveway or allocated parking space

Bailiffs cannot take control of it.

They can only take control of vehicles on the debtors property or where the debtor usually lives or carries on trade of business, or on any highway.

Put it on a neighbours parking space or driveway, and enforcement, if attempted will fail on paragraph 14(6) of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007, which states;



(6)Otherwise premises are relevant if the enforcement agent reasonably believes that they are the place, or one of the places, where the debtor—

(a)usually lives, or

(b)carries on a trade or business.

OR

Register it in Scotland

A local authority cannot apply for a warrant of control when the registered keepers address is in Scotland.

The jurisdiction of Civil Procedure Rule 75 and the Traffic Enforcement Centre is limited to England and Wales.

Enforcement for unpaid PCN's on vehicles registered outside England and Wales using Schedule 12 is not possible. The council cannot issue a warrant to bailiffs.
Neil B
Very simple question earlier posed but not answered.

You repeatedly refer to writing to the Council.
What were you responding to? i.e. what did you receive and how did you receive it.
PCNdispute
Initially I was given a Parking Ticket for non display of a Parking Permit that local residents have to obtain each year and display for Football Match days..

The tickets says that you have 14 days to pay or if I recall to write in to explain the reasons for not having the permit displayed.

You have to write to the Local Council ....

Sorry I thought that what I said in quotes on my initial posts intro explained...

The Ticket gets issued by a parking warden who the council employ to check that all parked vehicles display a valid updated permit. If they do not see the vehicle with the permit they then place a PCN Ticket on the car window screen...

The ticket is yellow / black and inside a see thru type envelope which sticks to the window screen.. and inside the envelope is a letter that explains about the Parking ticket, and how to pay or appeal...

As I said when I wrote in with my reasons...for not displaying the permit... I thought that would satisfy them when I referred to the family crisis.... if and when they replied... I did NOT look at the letter or may had not even realised at the time that had replied as I tried to explain why !




QUOTE
I had received a PCN about a year ago...at a time when I was in a major family crisis and time of great stress...and I had also been ill and not long out of Hospital.. and the last thing that I was concerned about was a parking ticket. or reading related letters..

The ticket was for not displaying a Parking Permit on Football day events at the local football match dates.

I did however manage to write in to the council to explain my reasons.



QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 20:23) *
Very simple question earlier posed but not answered.

You repeatedly refer to writing to the Council.
What were you responding to? i.e. what did you receive and how did you receive it.

QUOTE
PCNdispute
I am led to believe that Bailiff's do not always succeed in collection of a debt , Money or goods that are to the value of the debt.

That they tend to attempt for so long and then have to pass it back to the council.

In my situation for a parking ticket and it being a Motoring offence..I am led to believe that if I do not offer to pay that mainly they aim to obtain ones vehicle as alternative payment....

But as I mentioned their are ways to stop them obtaining the vehicle.. park it on Private land or on a neighbor's driveway.

They have to stick to certain rules when trying to obtain payment and cannot force there way into ones property...
at least maybe not for certain types of debts like parking tickets..(but Maybe they do for other matters as is seen on TV )

What else will the bailiff attempt if he cannot get the car ? Will he be able to get a warrant and have a way to get into ones property for a parking ticket situation.. Will he be able to use the Police or locksmith to help gain entry ?

if not and it gets passed back to the council..

Then the Council try other means to recover the debt... such as approach ones employer if one is working...
Can they take ones benefits if the debtor is signing on ?

But what happens if the debtor is not working ? does not own the property or shares it...
and has few possessions or passes them on to someone else.. or sells the car..

Can they approach their bank accounts..?

If the debtor has other means of surviving...some money or other aid from relatives ..

and still refuses to pay.... what is the other options and can one still avoid payment ?

They say its not a prison offence now but it was once...

If one really does not have the money and has to sell their car to continue to live on that money..as long as they can..(if it has not been taken)

then how are the council going to obtain that payment..

If banks have any problems with things they have ways of getting the money from elsewhere and dont always have to rely on their customers funds...

so why is it any different with councils ???

I am not sure at what stage that they will put a CCJ on the debtors record...

or if there maybe something else they can do to worsen the situation.

I am led to believe it is possible to pay up and then have ways to reverse the situation and to have ways to request back the payment... but having NOT signed any of the bailiffs paperwork... that is to go to county court where they wil have to pay legal fees which will drain their profits...


==================================

I just found this from the CAB on Dealing with Bailliff's.

It suggested ways that you maybe able to stop the Bailliff..

In my case as it had reached the final demand...I don't think that they apply...and I think I got the final demand a week ago.
Thursday or Friday, but there is NO date on the Hand delivered letters to confirm..

It does seems that they just visit when they are ready within a 12 month period in terms of knocking on ones door...
or I assume attempting other means to collect if they have not obtained the car..

One suggestion says to ask the creditor to write off the debt...But why would they consider that ???

I cannot imagine they would consider it and in council ? Govt cases...I very much doubt it.

Then at the end it says about arranging to pay after the Enforcement Notice....
or try to arrange a payment process.... Well the last letters I obtained that were hand delivered..
The 24 hr one... would have allowed me to pay in installments, but the last letter demanded immediate full payment..

I was led to believe they wanted to collect very next day and did ask about that at there office but no one told me it could be anytime in the next 12 months.. and the Balliff who I spoke with did not indicate it either..

I was not aware that I may have further time to check things out and try to understand what was happening..or what my rights were......as the letter made out as if it was a final demand..


I find the process to be wrong in the way that part is done...

In the part that refers to "Stopping bailiff action at a later stage"

It suggests that I could pay later in full..

QUOTE
pay the full amount you owe at any point until your belongings are actually sold


but why would one pay in full and wait for their belongings to be sold ? especially if they did not want them selling if the balliff had taken them, even thou when he sells them he may pay the money back to the debtor who just paid in full..

I am not sure if things could be put on hold if the bailliff has made some errors while they change them..


AT the end of the day all this does not make me think that I should be having to pay their extremely high fees..for what I consider a very minor offence if an offence at all..


QUOTE
Stopping bailiff action - your options
If you've received a notice of enforcement, there are a number of ways you can stop or delay the bailiff action. Ultimately, getting rid of the bailiffs can only be done by dealing with the debt you owe.

This page takes you through the options you have for stopping bailiff action.

If you’re dealing with bailiff action that began before 6 April 2014, different rules may apply. You should get advice from your local Citizens Advice Bureau.

Check the bailiff's notice is correct

Whenever a bailiff issues you with a notice, it must follow a certain format and be delivered in a certain way. If it doesn't, you can complain and ask for the bailiff action to be delayed while they put the mistake right.

More about checking a bailiff's notice is correct

How long have you got to stop bailiff action?

If you've received a notice of enforcement from a bailiff, you have seven days to take steps to stop the bailiff action and avoid a visit. This doesn't include Sundays, bank holidays, Christmas Day or Good Friday. If you don't try to stop the bailiffs within this time, they may visit you at any time during the 12 months following the date the enforcement notice was made. This means it's vital you act as quickly as possible after receiving an enforcement notice.

In some cases, bailiffs may get a court order which gives you fewer than seven days' notice. This would happen if they and the court were convinced that giving more notice would mean you would hide or get rid of your valuable possessions in a bid to avoid them being taken.

Options for stopping bailiff action

Bailiff survey

Tell us more about your experiences to help us change the way bailiffs behave.

Take our short survey on bailiffs

There are a number of different options for stopping bailiff action. The best options for you will depend on your personal situation.

Dispute liability for the debt

If you don't think you owe the debt, you should act as quickly as possible to resolve the situation with the creditor and the bailiff.

More about disputing liability for the debt

Negotiate with your creditor

It's a good idea to contact your creditor straight away. Ask them to suspend the bailiff action for a few days while you work out a repayment plan to pay the debt. This will buy you some time to work out what you need to do.

During this time you'll need to work out your budget, so you can see how much spare money you have to put towards paying your creditor each month. You might also want to see whether you can increase your income, sell things of value you own or find another way of making the most of the money you have, which will help you pay off the debt even quicker.

More about negotiating with your creditors

Offer payment in full to your creditor

If you can afford to pay off the debt in full, it's worth doing this as soon as possible. Your debt will usually increase if the bailiff makes a house visit, as they will mean they charge a fee. You can offer to pay in full even if the bailiffs do arrive at your home. You will still save costs in the long run.

Apply to the court to suspend bailiff action

If the bailiff is collecting money that you owe under a county court or high court judgment and you can make an offer to pay by instalments, you may be able to apply to the court to suspend the bailiff action for as long as you keep paying the instalments.

More about applying to court to suspend bailiff action

Make an offer to the bailiff

If you have some spare income you may be able to offer to pay the bailiff something, to stop them taking your belongings away. You may have the opportunity to make them an offer before they come to your home. The earlier you try to approach them, the better chance you have that they'll agree. Even if the bailiffs get into your home, it's not too late for them to accept a reasonable offer.

If you're planning to make an offer to the bailiff, be sure to work out your budget first, so you can see how much you can afford to pay towards your debt. You might also want to see whether you can increase your income, sell things of value you own or find another way of making the most of the money you have.

More about making an offer to the bailiff

Ask your creditor to write off your debts

If you have no spare money, own very little of value and really have no way of paying your debts, you may want to ask your creditor if they'll consider writing off your debt. Bear in mind that your creditor doesn't have to consider this.

Stopping bailiff action at a later stage

If you haven't been able to stop bailiff action after receiving an enforcement notice, you can still take steps to stop the bailiff's process. You can try to negotiate a payment arrangement with the bailiff or your creditor, apply to the court to suspend the bailiff action, or pay the full amount you owe at any point until your belongings are actually sold. You should also check any notices that you've received carefully, as you may be able to get the bailiffs to delay their action while they put any mistakes right.


https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-...n-your-options/
Neil B
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 20:23) *
Very simple question earlier posed but not answered.

You repeatedly refer to writing to the Council.
What were you responding to? i.e. what did you receive and how did you receive it.

QUOTE (PCNdispute @ Fri, 16 Sep 2016 - 21:33) *
The ticket is yellow / black and inside a see thru type envelope which sticks to the window screen.. and inside the envelope is a letter that explains about the Parking ticket, and how to pay or appeal...

You didn't explain exactly that - so a PCN on the vehicle. (different to one by post)
So if you wrote at that point it was just an informal challenge.
It doesn't matter what the Council replied or if they even did.

So, a TE7 application could not claim to have 'made formal representations and not received a reply'.

-
That leaves you with 'did not receive the Notice to Owner'.
You haven't told us whether you have since found it?

I can only leave it up to you to decide if you can honestly say that not being able, at the time, to respond to the NtO
meant that you effectively didn't 'receive' it. Not having evidence of any medical or or other support at the time is a difficulty
- but your description of events does ring true.

--
On all of your other long posts about ways you have researched to avoid bailiff action - FORGET IT.

I doubt you'll get any advice on or support for that route from members here.

1/. It can't see it working, no matter what others claim.

2/. Do you really want the stress of looking over your shoulder and fearing loss fo many months?
Warrant is valid for 12.


PCNdispute
I am not sure how it happened but somehow this reply was posted several times...

I had tried earlier to post and the post did not go thru, but I had clicked a few times in trying.

Apologies if the posts still remain when you read.. Otherwise I will delete what I can..and maybe the moderator can delete anything else.......



As I am new to the forum, I have little idea who reads or writes or tends to reply to members posts or who are the knowledgeable members who can offer relevant advice.

Obviously I joined the forum hoping to find a possible solution. as I personally found the fees being charged hard to accept...and believe they are far too much for such a offence..

but knowing what the law can be and the Government and how they make such laws... in another way It does not surprise me..

I just had NO idea where I stood with it or what may or may not be possible to try to avoid payment..
or if I had any rights based upon my explanations..

but so far from my research / plus talking to various people who are associated in the business... It does not look very good at all and there seems little hope.

I thought that most Parking tickets that people get are usually put on the cars window when its a Parking fine...and more likely that maybe speeding fines.. you get thru the post...

Or maybe there are Council type Parking Tickets and Police Parking tickets.. or maybe things used to be that you tended to have tickets placed upon ones car window screen...

Yes my initial letter was both to explain my reasons why and I suppose to challenge the ticket.
I assume if they replied or not... that they have to reply in order for the process to be valid..
In my case they say that they did reply even thou I am yet to find the letter..But I am NOT doubting that have replied.

Is a Notice to owner.. when you get a letter thru the post rather than a Ticket on the window screen.

I did get what is worded as a "Order for recovery of unpaid penalty charge" form TE3.. which at that point the fine is saying its £112.. it says that I can still pay that or file a statement for not paying the charge..which I thought that I had already done in my earlier initial letter...when the fine was still only £70...or £35 if you paid in 2 weeks.

About 3 weeks later I seem to have a last letter from the council saying that they had passed it onto the TEC...with a copy of a " Notice of Enforcement " ... The fee now has gone to £187 at that stage.

It seems that you are a long term member who will have deep knowledge of the system / processes..
and if you suggest that it seems not possible to avoid it.. then you maybe offering me the right advice.

and at least I will know that I cannot take it any further..

I am OK to try and avoid payment as long as possible...as they may not arrive for 6 months.. and 6 months hanging onto my money is better for me than parting with it now..

When they turn up... I hope to deal with it then..

Unless somehow they wil continue to add on even more fines...

In the mean time I may (if I can sell my car)

But otherwise I am not in a position to pay..as stressful as it maybe..

There was another separate incident that has caused all my problems that also should have gone to court..
that I had intended to consider... but with all that happened .. that took me away from doing it..

but if the truth was proven.. I would had hoped that this could also over part of my reasons..

BUT NOW that I have seen that they WILL NOT take many excuses .. I think one has to have a bad illness effect or die for
them to take any notice...when its all too late..

Part of the system seems very unkind..and inconsiderate.

Are most of the members /advisers who you refer to on here just past subjects or from the legal professions ?

-------------------------------------------------------------

You didn't explain exactly that - so a PCN on the vehicle. (different to one by post)
So if you wrote at that point it was just an informal challenge.
It doesn't matter what the Council replied or if they even did.

So, a TE7 application could not claim to have 'made formal representations and not received a reply'.

-
That leaves you with 'did not receive the Notice to Owner'.
You haven't told us whether you have since found it?

I can only leave it up to you to decide if you can honestly say that not being able, at the time, to respond to the NtO
meant that you effectively didn't 'receive' it. Not having evidence of any medical or or other support at the time is a difficulty
- but your description of events does ring true.

--
On all of your other long posts about ways you have researched to avoid bailiff action - FORGET IT.

I doubt you'll get any advice on or support for that route from members here.

1/. It can't see it working, no matter what others claim.

2/. Do you really want the stress of looking over your shoulder and fearing loss fo many months?
Warrant is valid for 12.
PCNdispute
As I am new to the forum, I have little idea who reads or writes or tends to reply to members posts or who are the knowledgeable members who can offer relevant advice.

Obviously I joined the forum hoping to find a possible solution. as I personally found the fees being charged hard to accept...and believe they are far too much for such a offence..

but knowing what the law can be and the Government and how they make such laws... in another way It does not surprise me..

I just had NO idea where I stood with it or what may or may not be possible to try to avoid payment..
or if I had any rights based upon my explanations..

but so far from my research / plus talking to various people who are associated in the business... It does not look very good at all and there seems little hope.

I thought that most Parking tickets that people get are usually put on the cars window when its a Parking fine...and more likely that maybe speeding fines.. you get thru the post...

Or maybe there are Council type Parking Tickets and Police Parking tickets.. or maybe things used to be that you tended to have tickets placed upon ones car window screen...

Yes my initial letter was both to explain my reasons why and I suppose to challenge the ticket.
I assume if they replied or not... that they have to reply in order for the process to be valid..
In my case they say that they did reply even thou I am yet to find the letter..But I am NOT doubting that have replied.

Is a Notice to owner.. when you get a letter thru the post rather than a Ticket on the window screen.

I did get what is worded as a "Order for recovery of unpaid penalty charge" form TE3.. which at that point the fine is saying its £112.. it says that I can still pay that or file a statement for not paying the charge..which I thought that I had already done in my earlier initial letter...when the fine was still only £70...or £35 if you paid in 2 weeks.

About 3 weeks later I seem to have a last letter from the council saying that they had passed it onto the TEC...with a copy of a " Notice of Enforcement " ... The fee now has gone to £187 at that stage.

It seems that you are a long term member who will have deep knowledge of the system / processes..
and if you suggest that it seems not possible to avoid it.. then you maybe offering me the right advice.

and at least I will know that I cannot take it any further..

I am OK to try and avoid payment as long as possible...as they may not arrive for 6 months.. and 6 months hanging onto my money is better for me than parting with it now..

When they turn up... I hope to deal with it then..

Unless somehow they wil continue to add on even more fines...

In the mean time I may (if I can sell my car)

But otherwise I am not in a position to pay..as stressful as it maybe..

There was another separate incident that has caused all my problems that also should have gone to court..
that I had intended to consider... but with all that happened .. that took me away from doing it..

but if the truth was proven.. I would had hoped that this could also over part of my reasons..

BUT NOW that I have seen that they WILL NOT take many excuses .. I think one has to have a bad illness effect or die for
them to take any notice...when its all too late..

Part of the system seems very unkind..and inconsiderate.

Are most of the members /advisers who you refer to on here just past subjects or from the legal professions ?

I assume that your suggesting that the other members would not suggest other means to avoid payment that I may had mentioned... either because they are unaware of other possibilities beyond what is or seems the standard normal process or that something s that I indicated may seem "invalid reasoning.." that they would not agree to discussing or be against considering..

I don't know what may or may not be possible..in regards to a parking ticket...

I have seen TV programs where Bailliffs enter properties and get warrants and Police if needed.. so if I do not offer to pay..
or somehow withhold my car... I am not sure if initially they will attempt the steps to attempt payment by an initial knock on the door... or end up breaking in if I am out...and taking goods.. or at least listing good they aim to take..
with all the hassle of then having to log everything...

or if it is still possible with it only being a minor incident not to let them in...or if I have rights not to allow them in to take goods.

what annoys me is I see the TV balliffs later often coming to an payment plan agreement when someone is struggling to pay.

yet they say that I have missed that opportinity when I had not replied in 24 hrs when they hand delivered/ posted the 24 hr notice to pay letter..

what Im saying is next day they insist on full payment final demand to pay.... then you see them on TV negoiating when they enter a persons property...to then renegotiate or allow monthly payments..

what a load of BS.. they try to scare us all by ! if that is often the case..

QUOTE
I doubt you'll get any advice on or support for that route from members here.

1/. It can't see it working, no matter what others claim.


-------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE
You didn't explain exactly that - so a PCN on the vehicle. (different to one by post)
So if you wrote at that point it was just an informal challenge.
It doesn't matter what the Council replied or if they even did.

So, a TE7 application could not claim to have 'made formal representations and not received a reply'.

-
That leaves you with 'did not receive the Notice to Owner'.
You haven't told us whether you have since found it?

I can only leave it up to you to decide if you can honestly say that not being able, at the time, to respond to the NtO
meant that you effectively didn't 'receive' it. Not having evidence of any medical or or other support at the time is a difficulty
- but your description of events does ring true.

--
On all of your other long posts about ways you have researched to avoid bailiff action - FORGET IT.

I doubt you'll get any advice on or support for that route from members here.

1/. It can't see it working, no matter what others claim.

2/. Do you really want the stress of looking over your shoulder and fearing loss fo many months?
Warrant is valid for 12.
Neil B
In your particular situation you really should talk to our recommended
expert.
She can answer your numerous questions about bailiff powers and their actions.

http://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/
PCNdispute
Much appreciate the link / advice Neil.

I will certainly try it / contact her next week.

It can seem a complex situation even though in theory compared to many other cases it should
be relatively simple.

Many thanks






QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 17 Sep 2016 - 10:56) *
In your particular situation you really should talk to our recommended
expert.
She can answer your numerous questions about bailiff powers and their actions.

http://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/

Neil B
QUOTE (PCNdispute @ Sat, 17 Sep 2016 - 17:33) *
Much appreciate the link / advice Neil.

I will certainly try it / contact her next week.

It can seem a complex situation even though in theory compared to many other cases it should
be relatively simple.

Many thanks






QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 17 Sep 2016 - 10:56) *
In your particular situation you really should talk to our recommended
expert.
She can answer your numerous questions about bailiff powers and their actions.

http://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/


Your best bet is to e-mail that adviser a link to this thread and then phone tomorrow to ask her to look at it.
That way she can more quickly see what the problem is and some detail.
Bailiff Advice
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 17 Sep 2016 - 10:56) *
In your particular situation you really should talk to our recommended
expert.

She can answer your numerous questions about bailiff powers and their actions.

http://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/


If an enquiry is 'out of hours' or at weekends (or if our phone line is engaged), then please send a question to us via email. Please ensure that you provide a link to your post on here

http://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/contact-b...-bailiff-advice

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