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Full Version: PCN contravention 53 in Station Road Harrow
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frustrateddriverharrow
HI I have just received a PCN from Harrow Council re 53 - failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone in Station Rd (College rd - Sheepcote rd) on 21 July this year. The PCN is dated 5 Sept so I'm surprised it's taken this long. Also, whilst the photo shows my car (I checked the diary and was in Harrow that day) it doesn't show the contravention - I can't see where the signs saying it was a pedestrian zone were displayed so I don't know if these are reasonable. I don't live locally so have never been in the area and had no idea I was in a pedestrian zone. From having a look on this forum and elsewhere it looks like this is a notorious spot and wondered if anyone had any more recent (last ones look about 2012) success complaining against this notice? Any advice on letters to write etc would be much appreciated. And of course if anyone is local and knows the area and local signage, any advice would be appreciated too. Thanks in advance
stamfordman
You need to post the PCN with your personal details blanked.

I've not been in Harrow for a while but Google Street View clearly shows two pedestrian zone signs on either side of the road at the start of that part of Station Road and there are no left turn signs as you approach the junction from College Road.

Not sure how to do an exact GSV link but it's about here:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5819377,-...3312!8i6656
John U.K.
Does not the PCN talk of video? If so, this, not the still photo, will be the evidence.


As usual, for best advice please post up PCN (both sides)

Do not attach docs/photos, but use this method:
Photo or scan. see http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858&st=0
for how to do it. I use Tinypic for stage 2 with no problems.
STAGE 1 takes care of resizing. If you use Tinypic for Stage 2, on the left each image in Tinypic is a list of links. Highlight and copy the entire link 'for forums' from the list for each image, and paste each link into your post. Each copied and pasted link will embed a thumbnail link in your post.

Using the attachment method is not advised as it means quickly running out of attachment space.
Redact/obscure personal details, PCN no. Reg No.

Also post up a GSV (Google Street View) link to the location.
LEAVE IN all dates/times; precise location, Contravention code and description.
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 7 Sep 2016 - 22:09) *
You need to post the PCN with your personal details blanked.

I've not been in Harrow for a while but Google Street View clearly shows two pedestrian zone signs on either side of the road at the start of that part of Station Road and there are no left turn signs as you approach the junction from College Road.

Not sure how to do an exact GSV link but it's about here:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5819377,-...3312!8i6656


Here

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5800593,-...3312!8i6656


just move backward or forward to the spoy you want then copy and paste the link
stamfordman
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 7 Sep 2016 - 22:15) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 7 Sep 2016 - 22:09) *
You need to post the PCN with your personal details blanked.

I've not been in Harrow for a while but Google Street View clearly shows two pedestrian zone signs on either side of the road at the start of that part of Station Road and there are no left turn signs as you approach the junction from College Road.

Not sure how to do an exact GSV link but it's about here:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5819377,-...3312!8i6656


Here

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5800593,-...3312!8i6656


just move backward or forward to the spoy you want then copy and paste the link


I tried that - it doesn't work to the exact spot for me - am using Safari on a Mac, maybe why.

frustrateddriverharrow
I've uploaded the front page of the PCN (don't think the back page says anything specific). I've looked on google maps streetview and on the stills from the council video and think they have caught me entering station road at the junction wtih College Road travelling north. The pedestrian zone sign is right at the start of the street wtih no prior warning and then there is a pedestrian crossing (so no U turn possible) and then a no U turn sign so I had no choice but to continue along the street. I'd be interested in your views and whether anyone has lodged a similar appeal. Thank you
stamfordman
As I said, there are no-left turn signs on College Road/opposite end of road - three I see - so you missed all of them and made an illegal left turn. However, the PCN is for entering the pedestrian zone that the no-lefts were trying hard to stop you from doing so maybe there is a technicality here.

If you came along Station Road (you would have passed access only signs at the start as well so you weren't supposed to be on this bit) the pedestrian zone signs were straight ahead at the junction so easy to see.

EDIT: Actually I can see your point - if you came in on the access only part travelling straight on it's odd that they've signed the no-left on College Road well but not made a suggestion I can see that it would be wise to turn left into College before crossing into the ped zone.
Mad Mick V
Surely the PCN has been served out of time.

Is this a hire vehicle or were the OP's DVLA details not up to date.

Mick
frustrateddriverharrow
Thanks for that Stamfordman. It's really hard for me to know what to do as I'm not local and can't really see that much from teh googlemap streetview pictures. Debating whether to go there this weekend and have a look/ take photos myself. I used satnav as I was trying to drop the kids at the cinema, but remember we got a bit lost, so not 100% sure which direction I was coming from - but it would be unlike me to miss 3 no left turn signs. Thanks for your advice so far and if anyone has lodged an appeal on a similar basis Id really appreciate hearing from you
stamfordman
Note what Mick says about time - you are supposed to get the PCN in 28 days I think but only if DVLA has not delayed sending your info to the council.
frustrateddriverharrow
Interesting as we've (for the first time) leased this car so I guess it takes longer via DVLA to get my details? is that how it works? Where do I find the rules/regulations about the PCN? I tried on teh harrow website but couldn't find anything useful. Thank you so much for your replies so far.
stamfordman
QUOTE (frustrateddriverharrow @ Thu, 8 Sep 2016 - 11:10) *
Interesting as we've (for the first time) leased this car so I guess it takes longer via DVLA to get my details? is that how it works? Where do I find the rules/regulations about the PCN? I tried on teh harrow website but couldn't find anything useful. Thank you so much for your replies so far.



As a lease car the lease company is most often the registered keeper so presumably they passed the PCN to you, which explains the delay.
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 8 Sep 2016 - 11:24) *
QUOTE (frustrateddriverharrow @ Thu, 8 Sep 2016 - 11:10) *
Interesting as we've (for the first time) leased this car so I guess it takes longer via DVLA to get my details? is that how it works? Where do I find the rules/regulations about the PCN? I tried on teh harrow website but couldn't find anything useful. Thank you so much for your replies so far.



As a lease car the lease company is most often the registered keeper so presumably they passed the PCN to you, which explains the delay.


This is not how it works, the lease company would have to challenge the PCN it be cancelled and a new one issued to you. they cannot just then sit on it for a while, but the times would indicate they have followed procedure

So is the PCN you have addressed to you?

What does the PCN say about re offering the discount?

Ask for a copy of the video
frustrateddriverharrow
Yes I thought it would go to the leasing company but the PCN is definitely addressed to me (well my hubby actually as the lease is in his name). Not sure what you mean about the discount? The fine is £130 but £65 if paid wtihin 14 days rising to £195 if not paid by the end of the 28 days
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (frustrateddriverharrow @ Thu, 8 Sep 2016 - 15:32) *
Yes I thought it would go to the leasing company but the PCN is definitely addressed to me (well my hubby actually as the lease is in his name). Not sure what you mean about the discount? The fine is £130 but £65 if paid wtihin 14 days rising to £195 if not paid by the end of the 28 days


The discount is 50% from the £130 so £65. Many councils re offer this discount if they receive a challenge within the 14 day period when the discount is allowed
it may well tell you this on the back of the PCN If it is reoffered then you may as well challenge. I would not put the discount at risk here
frustrateddriverharrow
Thanks for that. there's nothing on the back about it. Does that mean if I challenge in the 14 days the discount would apply regardless of outcome? I couldn't find any information about this
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (frustrateddriverharrow @ Thu, 8 Sep 2016 - 22:22) *
Thanks for that. there's nothing on the back about it. Does that mean if I challenge in the 14 days the discount would apply regardless of outcome? I couldn't find any information about this



I would assume the opposite. phone them in the morning
Mad Mick V
This was a decision in April.

2160007475

The allegation in these proceedings is that this vehicle failed to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone.

The appellant raises the issue of signage arguing that it is confusing.

Regulatory signage indicating the restriction is posted just before a sign instructing motorists that u-turns are prohibited.

This prohibition on a vehicle performing a u-turn to my mind discourages a motorist from taking action to avoid entry to the pedestrian zone having committed himself to it or having entered the zone from immediately leaving it (notwithstanding that the motorist is required to pass the regulatory sign before reaching the no u-turn sign) and I am not satisfied that signage at this location is clear.

I am not bound by the decision of any other adjudicator.

The contravention has not I find been proved.

The appeal is allowed.


Mick
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