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m13lky
Hi there,

Sorry if this is in the wrong place, I drive a VW Amarok which meets all the criteria for a Dual purpose vehicle, ie double cab pick up, 4 wheel drive & under 2040Kgs unladen weight, the last time I checked the highway code & other police force sites they stated DPV's & car derived vans were the same limits as cars ie 60mph on a normal A class road, but now only car derived vans seem to be mentioned on the gov highway code site?

Just wondering as I drove by a mobile speed camera on an A class 60 limit road yesterday at around 60 on my speedo. I am just trying to gauge if I will get a NIP as I have heard of others who now get these due to the vehicle being registered as a commercial vehicle so the ANPR system (if being used) issues a ticket as in this case it thinks the vehicle should only be doing 50mph, but if the person defends it in court it gets thrown out if the vehicle is a DPV.

I know they were trying to get the term/class DPV done away with so would like to know especially if anyone has defended a speeding case in similar circumstances to the one mentioned above.

Just found this old link to show the police's take on things as I thought they were above:-

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q529.htm

Thanks in advance

Malc.
kernow2015
One indication would be to go onto the .gov.uk site and do a vehicle check, it will tell you what type approval the vehicle has, if it's M1 then it's a car, but if it's N1 then it's classified as a van and would be subject to the lower limit.
localdriver
QUOTE (kernow2015 @ Sun, 26 Jun 2016 - 10:06) *
One indication would be to go onto the .gov.uk site and do a vehicle check, it will tell you what type approval the vehicle has, if it's M1 then it's a car, but if it's N1 then it's classified as a van and would be subject to the lower limit.


A Dual Purpose vehicle can be a Goods Vehicle (N1) or Passenger Vehicle (M1) and not subject to the lower limit.
m13lky
Just had an email response back from Police Scotland, all dual purpose vehicle speed limits are still the same as cars, they sent the part of the table through on the email showing this, ie 60mph on an NSL A class road.

I am awaiting VW confirming the unladen weight of my Amarok then I am going to contact the DVLA to get DPV put on my registration document as this is what it is, it seems the dealers are not 100% correctly registering these vehicles when they are new.

Malc.
localdriver
According to the VW brochure, the lightest Amarok is 2058kg unladen weight, too heavy to be a Dual Purpose Vehicle.
m13lky
Local driver thanks for your comment, you are right about the listed weight, mine is an auto which shows at 2093Kgs but if you look at the note 1 that includes a full tank of fuel around 80 litres & the definition of unladen weight on the .gov website see here:- https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-weights-explained clearly states without passengers, goods or other items & more importantly fuel so that is minus 80kgs thus the unladen weight without fuel would be 2013kgs, well under the magic number of 2040kgs.

I just want an email from VW to confirm all this against my registration number so I can forward to DVLA.

facade
The density of diesel is around 800kg/m3 so 80 litres is 64Kg
Petrol is around 740 Kg/m3 so 80 litres is 59.2 Kg, so you are sailing a bit close to the wind if it is petrol.
m13lky
Facade,

Thanks for pointing that out, it is diesel so its still well under the 2040Kgs though, according to the definition as long as no more than 2040kgs when unladen that's all that counts.
Churchmouse
QUOTE (localdriver @ Sun, 26 Jun 2016 - 10:31) *
QUOTE (kernow2015 @ Sun, 26 Jun 2016 - 10:06) *
One indication would be to go onto the .gov.uk site and do a vehicle check, it will tell you what type approval the vehicle has, if it's M1 then it's a car, but if it's N1 then it's classified as a van and would be subject to the lower limit.


A Dual Purpose vehicle can be a Goods Vehicle (N1) or Passenger Vehicle (M1) and not subject to the lower limit.

Yes, and what is relevant for the purposes of a speeding ticket (not that there has been one issued, as far as I'm aware?) is not the classification noted by the DVLA on the V5C, but whether the vehicle--in fact--complies with the definition of a DPV under the law. That is what you would have to argue in court, not what the DVLA had somehow put in their records.

It would certainly help if the DVLA were to note the correct category in their records, however, as this could prevent the issuance of erroneous speeding tickets in the first place. For that reason, if the vehicle is not currently described as M1 or MPV (there is no "DPV" category), it would be well worth pursuing this.

--Churchmouse
smellywelly
The limits are clear https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits AIUI if the production weight of the vehicle meets the DVLA requirement for a DP vehicle, then .. it meets the requirements of the DVLA regardless of any speed trap .. if you follow my logic ..so IMHO you should be fine.. If you choose to load your vehicle with fuel or other items is irrelevant , as long as its not overloaded, because it is its 'unladen weight' which makes it meet the criteria, and is why VW, Isuzu, Ford, Toyota, Nissan , Mitsubishi etc make vehicles to meet this 'class'

I have a corner of my vehicle manual folded down to show this to any errant officer stopping me that my Isuzu DMax ..even as an auto is only 1992 KG and well within the DP limit and rules.
localdriver
It is not the production weight, the OP's problem is that the unladen weights according to VW include fuel, which show his Amarok as 2093 kg.

The unladen weight limit for a Dual Purpose vehicle is 2040 kg, excluding fuel - s.3, The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1968.

The OP is trying to establish from VW if the unladen weight of his Amarok excluding fuel, is under 2040 kg, and so is a Dual Purpose Vehicle.




smellywelly
QUOTE (localdriver @ Fri, 1 Jul 2016 - 23:14) *
The OP is trying to establish from VW if the unladen weight of his Amarok excluding fuel, is under 2040 kg, and so is a Dual Purpose Vehicle.


So the payload is stipulated on the VW website .. (beside the unladen weight including fuel) .. what is the payload of the OP's vehicle minus the GVW stated on the VIN plate on the OP's vehicle ? It should be less than the 2040 required ?
localdriver
QUOTE (smellywelly @ Sat, 2 Jul 2016 - 12:12) *
what is the payload of the OP's vehicle minus the GVW stated on the VIN plate on the OP's vehicle ?


That is 2093 kg, the unladen weight according to VW which includes a full tank of fuel. The OP is trying to establish the unladen weight without fuel.







smellywelly
QUOTE (localdriver @ Sat, 2 Jul 2016 - 14:09) *
The OP is trying to establish the unladen weight without fuel.


Yes I think I've worked that out rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif

The point I'm making is these vehicles are manufactured to meet a UK (Euro)class specification .. as long as the base vehicle, and its production variants do that .. it meets the specifications. end of.

The question is .. whether you fit it with a hard top, have leather seats, fill it with fuel , does it become over the weight class ? and my argument is .. no it doesent .. because you can pimp any vehicle the way you want , just like putting a load in it .. it adds weight .. but that shouldnt change its clasification from a point of manufacture.

If I'm wrong .. all the above manufacturers I mentioned earlier will have a lot of explaining to do .. including my own wink.gif
localdriver
QUOTE (smellywelly @ Sun, 3 Jul 2016 - 21:33) *
QUOTE (localdriver @ Sat, 2 Jul 2016 - 14:09) *
The OP is trying to establish the unladen weight without fuel.
Yes I think I've worked that out rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif The point I'm making is these vehicles are manufactured to meet a UK (Euro)class specification


It will be manufactured to the relevant specification. What the the OP it is trying to establish is if his Amarok is a Dual Purpose Vehicle or not.

According to VW, the unladen weight is 2093 kg, including a full tank of fuel.

If the unladen weight (without fuel) does not exceed 2040 kg, it is a Dual Purpose Vehicle and not subject to the goods vehicle speed limits.

Which is why he is trying to obtain, from VW, the unladen weight without a full tank of fuel.

The Rookie
QUOTE (smellywelly @ Sun, 3 Jul 2016 - 21:33) *
The point I'm making is these vehicles are manufactured to meet a UK (Euro)class specification .. as long as the base vehicle, and its production variants do that .. it meets the specifications. end of.

True, but DPV is not a classification (neither is CDV) they are UK specific speed limits for vehicles meeting certain (outdated in some respects) physical criteria, so knowing the EU classification doesn't help at all.

Even if you have DPV put as type on the V5C, it doesn't make it one if it's not, the only benefit is reducing the potential hassle from dealing with NIP's.
smellywelly
I was checking my V5C this morning, I didnt think it stated a weight for my own Dmax but it does... as a 'Mass in Service' value which in my case was 2025 kg although confusingly the taxation class is stated as Light goods and the category is N1 which is essentially a light van IIRC
localdriver
'N1' is the classification for goods vehicles upto 3500 kg maximum authorised weight (which would include a Dmax).
The DVLA taxation class for 'N1' goods vehicles is 'Light Goods'.
If it meets the interpretation of a Dual Purpose Vehicle in s.3, The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, it will not be subject to the lower speed limits for goods vehicles in Sch. 6, Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.
m13lky
Update from Vw customer service, they say I should use the mass in service weight on my V5 which would make it over the required 2040 kgs once you take the 75kgs off for driver & the weight of the 90% tank of fuel. I emailed them the definition of unladen weight & what a dual purpose vehicle is of the .gov website which clearly states it is a dpv if it's unladen weight is 2040kgs or under, so I guess the only thing I can do is run it totally dry of fuel & empty it as it would have came of the production line & get it weighed at a local weigh bridge, if it comes back at 2040 kgs or less then I will pursue the dvla to change class or ensure it gets some form of marker so it can run at car speed limits which is the main point as far as I am concerned.

Thanks for the replies.
Bipolar
IMO you are much better emailing someone who knows what they're talking about at VW (CEO's office is normally a good bet). It has numerous advantages.

1) An email or letter from VW is nice and easy even for the DVLA to understand.
2) The DVLA are total morons and won't have a clue what a weighbridge printout means/shows.
3) No - really. The DVLA are moronically incompetent and will just send you template letters.
4) Actually they probably won't even do that as they will lose your letter/file it in "B" for "Bin - too difficult to understand".
5) There are plenty of ways to make a vehicle lighter (spare wheel and rear seats out within 2 minutes) so a weighbridge printout doesn't really show much anyway.
smellywelly
So is the conclusion that, the MIS on the V5 ' is' the deciding factor ? and that an Amarok does not meet the DPV criteria ? In which case what would be the point of the OP trying to re weigh it without fuel and 75 kg for the driver, as that is not the definition of mass in service ?
The Rookie
No, I don't think that is the conclusion, I think that is the VW UK service agent being bone idle and taking the easy way out.

So No we don't know yet if the Amarok (crew cab) is or isnt a DPV.

Because MIS is not the definition used for a DPV according to the governments own website.

The Irony is that if the Amarok is a DPV its one of the few full size 'trucks' (to use the merkin name) that is and could be an excellent selling point!

localdriver
QUOTE (smellywelly @ Tue, 5 Jul 2016 - 10:49) *
So is the conclusion that, the MIS on the V5 ' is' the deciding factor ?


No, it is VW not understanding the relevance of the different weights, especially the unladen weight in respect of Dual Purpose Vehicles.

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