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FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
Suzie-no-socs
Hello,

I have come across this website and have been trying to navigate my way round having first tried to use a hotmail e-mail address....
It is probably a long shot but you chaps seem to have such a detailed knowledge of these matters, I thought that I would run this past you.

I have a PCN, as shown:Click to view attachment

Here are the evidence photos:

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

There are no traffic signs on the street at all, nothing to indicate that I am not allowed to unload my car.

Are there any grounds for me to appeal the case? Thank you for any assistance you may be able to offer me.
hcandersen
There are traffic signs on the road, they're the DYL.

You may not wait, but you may unload.

The contravention alleges that you were waiting, so we can presume that the car was unattended with no signs of unloading.

You are bang to rights unless you can establish an exemption e.g. loading/unloading.

Over to you.
Incandescent
As HCA says, there is an exemption to the DYLs for loading/unloading. Where this activity is "private", i.e. not commercial collection and delivery, proof can be an issue as there is no paperwork trail normally. I mention proof, because if you claim an exemption, you have to justify it. You would need to say what you were unloading, and where to. If somebody assisted you, you can also submit a witness statement from them that they did this. A photo of the items being loaded/unloaded often helps. Tell us what you were doing and we can give an opinion as to whether it is a "runner" or not.

No signs are needed for DYLs as they apply 24x7.

Be aware, if you aren't already, that yellow lines (single and double), cover the off-carriageway surfaces like footways and verges, right up to the property line, (normally a wall or fence).




PS : there is another exemption for boarding/alighting passengers. If elderly or children are involved and need to be assisted to/from the property, you need to leave the car unattended, but the exemption still applies. Again, some form of proof is necessary.

ford poplar
The CEO allegedly observed the car for 5 mins, with no app evidence of loading/unloading or assisted alighting/pick up.
This will be a hard sell for a private motorist at TPT for reasons already mentioned. Pausing either activity to make a cup of tea etc is not permitted, nor is organising unloaded furniture in the home.
Suzie-no-socs
Thank you for your comments.

I had in my mind that the purpose of traffic management predominantly for the benefit of all road users in keeping traffic following and safety amongst other things. As a society, we are not looking to 'benefit' from the issuing of parking tickets per say, but that they are an instrument to enable the above.

So, if you are not causing an obstruction or a hazard etc, what benefit is there to issuing a parking ticket if not to raise funds. This probably seems like a very naive view.

As it happens I was unloading. I live on a street where there is a school, a pub, a petrol station with a Tesco Express and a row of shops all within 200yards. Whilst there is on-street parking (with no restrictions) outside my house it is often taken by people making use of these facilities (within their rights, despite there being a car park for the pub and Tesco Express). I often have to park a long way from my house. On this occasion, I was off-loading to my home which is about 150 yards away, a 5-minute wait for my return would not necessarily be long enough for me to walk to my house (carrying large heavy object), wait for someone to open the door, navigate round the door and walk back to the car. I don't have any paperwork as such only photographs of the items, online ads and e-mail exchanges.

I think the advice here is that the onus is on me to prove that I was unloading and that this would, for the most part, require some sort of paperwork.

One other point is there a mandatory requirement for PCNs to display a Contravention Code?
Neil B
Situation sounds ok.
Don't go including anything like your first two sentences and don't display attitude about
the CEO issuing the PCN, as it was fully justified at the time.
QUOTE (Suzie-no-socs @ Wed, 25 May 2016 - 10:23) *
One other point is there a mandatory requirement for PCNs to display a Contravention Code?

No.
DancingDad
Yes, unfortunately a naïve view of parking enforcement.
Perhaps the most generous view is that PCNs are issued because they can.

Loading.
From what you say and seem to have, especially the ads and email exchanges, you should have enough proof.
Whether the council will accept or not is open to question but TPT adjudicators are usually quite good on this sort of thing.

One question, it should make little difference but may be raised. Seems your car was right on the end of the yellow lines and no vehicle ahead on the unrestricted?
Can't tell from photos but was that blocked when you parked?

Keep the challenge simple.
I had collected a ???? following an online purchase (photos, advert and email exchanges attached)
But due to other vehicles could park no closer to my house which is about 150 yards away.
Having parked where I would cause least obstruction, I carried the ??? to my house, had to wait for my wife/hubby/partner/mum/dad/dog to open the door, left the item inside and returned to the vehicle to move it to a proper parking place.
When I found the PCN.
As I was loading and this is an exemption on yellow lines, please cancel the PCN
Hugs and Kisses
Suzie-no-socs
Great, thank you for your further responses.

DancingDad, keeping it simple is good advice - thanks, not so sure about the Hugs and kisses, but may be worth a try......

Is it proper to continue to post ie letters sent and response/outcome?
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (Suzie-no-socs @ Wed, 25 May 2016 - 11:55) *
Great, thank you for your further responses.

DancingDad, keeping it simple is good advice - thanks, not so sure about the Hugs and kisses, but may be worth a try......

Is it proper to continue to post ie letters sent and response/outcome?

Yes, keep us in the loop until it's sorted
DancingDad
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 25 May 2016 - 12:01) *
QUOTE (Suzie-no-socs @ Wed, 25 May 2016 - 11:55) *
Great, thank you for your further responses.

DancingDad, keeping it simple is good advice - thanks, not so sure about the Hugs and kisses, but may be worth a try......

Is it proper to continue to post ie letters sent and response/outcome?

Yes, keep us in the loop until it's sorted


Yes, absolutely.
And in the same thread, don't go starting new ones.

Council may accept your challenge (simple is always good in these cases, less room for them to mis-interpret)
They may not.
If the latter, don't panic, just post up your challenge wording (which can be what I wrote or your own words on it) and the rejection.
We can then advice on next steps.

Remember, should you re-word the challenge, simple facts, proof, nothing that implies it took longer then necessary. (no stopping for a cuppa or popping into Tescos for a bottle of milk)
Loading can take as long as needed but not one second longer.
Suzie-no-socs
Here is the text:



I wish to appeal the above PCN. I do not believe that it should be paid and am challenging it on the grounds of the exemption for unloading.

I had collected a number of old CRT TVs and VHS video recorders from storage that I had for sale on Gumtree (screenshots of the advert and various e-mail exchanges are attached) and was expecting someone to collect later that evening.

But due to other vehicles (visitors to the Rising Sun, teachers at Nether Green school, the after school club, the child-minders, Tea on the ramp at the Methodist church, Tesco Express shoppers, Cash machine users, music classes at Bluenote, the mortgage advisor and the double bus stop), I could park no closer to my house which is about 100 yards away.

I parked off the main road, where I would cause the least obstruction, behind another vehicle, and I carried very heavy TVs and video recorders to my house, had to wait for my children to open the door, left the item inside and returned to the vehicle. I made three deliveries back and forth before I went to move the car to a proper parking place some half a mile away.

I found that I had been issued with a PCN.

I respectfully request that you please cancel the PCN.



Not as simple as you may have liked and I suppose suggests a certain amount of frustration.

DancingDad
Gives the salient points.
May want to add your address to the bit about your house being 100yards away.
Wait for children to answer door...each time.

Don't forget to add a snail mail return address and PCN number, send it.

Total aside but people still buying CRT TVs and Video recorders ?
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