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BigG1985
Hey guys other I recently got pulled for using mobile phone whilst driving. I explained to the officer I had taken the mobile from my pocket to put it on the dash which was the truth I wasn't actually using the phone at the time which was the truth I also explained the phone was currently disconnected from the provider which was also true I offered him the phone to check call and text history etc to which he declined and said the phone would have to be sent away to which I replied fine do that which he brushed off.


He issued me with a ticket and said he would recommend me for a course I received the letter through today he also added a note stating my comment yes the phone was in my hand but I wasn't using it and asked me to sign it which I did.

I received my letter today as he said it had several options including a course insteam of points. The letter basically states I was using a mobile devices at 0 MPH on the m6. Do they have to have the correct speed ?

Also is it worth contesting the ticket and providing proof my mobile was disconnected at the time or on the basis that they said I wasn't actually moving at the time (was actually traveling at 70 mph)

Thanks Garry
snowy1998
First point of clarification - if the phone was not in service, what was the purpose of your actions?
peterguk
QUOTE (BigG1985 @ Sat, 21 May 2016 - 13:23) *
I also explained the phone was currently disconnected from the provider


Whilst i don't doubt what you're saying, it will be of little help - stick a PAYG SIM card in and it'll work. Conversely, remove the SIM card and it won't work.

QUOTE (BigG1985 @ Sat, 21 May 2016 - 13:23) *
Also is it worth contesting ... that they said I wasn't actually moving at the time (was actually traveling at 70 mph)


Irrelephant.


It is not unusual for drivers caught holding a phone to be found guilty in court. Whether right or wrong, courts often take the view if you had no intention of using it, or were not using it, you had no reason to be holding it.

If you want a risk-free outcome, take the course.
Korting
As has been said before, there is no legal definition of 'using'

As a reasonable person, I would have said that the definition of using was making or receiving calls or texts or using the internet. I cannot see how holding the phone when its not working or on could constitute using.

Another question: We often hear that the police officers dont want to look at the phone. Why is that? Is that because if they see that the phone cant have been used, they cant issue a ticket? In other words they dont get the brownie points.
Jlc
Even without an active SIM / contract, the phone could still potentially be 'used', e.g. for looking at old messages / mails / time etc.

We weren't there but I find it hard to believe they'd pull you simply for taking it from your pocket straight onto the dash?
Landshark
QUOTE (Michael 194 @ Sun, 22 May 2016 - 09:14) *
As has been said before, there is no legal definition of 'using'

As a reasonable person, I would have said that the definition of using was making or receiving calls or texts or using the internet. I cannot see how holding the phone when its not working or on could constitute using.

Another question: We often hear that the police officers dont want to look at the phone. Why is that? Is that because if they see that the phone cant have been used, they cant issue a ticket? In other words they dont get the brownie points.


What would they gain from looking at it??Using covers any interacting with the phone, using maps, updating Facebook, checking pepipoo and I'm not sure how the officer checking the phone logs would help??
Gan
Unfortunately neither of the key words "Driving" or "Using" are clearly defined

There are two major reasons for this confusion :

1 The minister that laid the statutory instrument failed to include an explanation of the mischief he intended to prevent
2 Phones have functions that weren't foreseen when the legislation was introduced

The briefing notes to Parliament, however, specifically refer to distraction caused by communication while the vehicle was moving or in traffic that could move at any time

Picking up or moving a phone might be preparation for use but it's not the use itself.
It's no different from picking up any other object and could be addressed perfectly well by "not in proper control"

As a three point offence, it isn't usually worth the potential costs of letting a court decide
If the Govt. ever follows through with its intention to make it six points, however, it will have to give the CPS and courts clear instructions because it will be worth defending
Lodesman
QUOTE (Landshark @ Sun, 22 May 2016 - 09:54) *
QUOTE (Michael 194 @ Sun, 22 May 2016 - 09:14) *
As has been said before, there is no legal definition of 'using'

Another question: We often hear that the police officers dont want to look at the phone. Why is that? Is that because if they see that the phone cant have been used, they cant issue a ticket? In other words they dont get the brownie points.


Given the plethora of mobile phone models out there, what would be the point ? I doubt if any officer is conversant with the operation of all models, especially with regard to accessing logs etc. In fact I doubt if many people out on the street could do so.
fergies_army
QUOTE (Michael 194 @ Sun, 22 May 2016 - 08:14) *
Another question: We often hear that the police officers dont want to look at the phone. Why is that? Is that because if they see that the phone cant have been used, they cant issue a ticket? In other words they dont get the brownie points.


Communication data = The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (c.23) ..... Thats ehy
NewJudge
QUOTE (fergies_army @ Sun, 22 May 2016 - 12:07) *
Communication data = The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (c.23) ..... Thats ehy

Are you suggesting that RIPA prevents police officers from examining mobile phones to see whether they have been used?
southpaw82
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sun, 22 May 2016 - 12:59) *
QUOTE (fergies_army @ Sun, 22 May 2016 - 12:07) *
Communication data = The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (c.23) ..... Thats ehy

Are you suggesting that RIPA prevents police officers from examining mobile phones to see whether they have been used?

Or, at least, that many police officers believe that it does.
fergies_army
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sun, 22 May 2016 - 11:59) *
QUOTE (fergies_army @ Sun, 22 May 2016 - 12:07) *
Communication data = The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (c.23) ..... Thats ehy

Are you suggesting that RIPA prevents police officers from examining mobile phones to see whether they have been used?



Police examine your text messages and observe you sent your mum a text saying i love you at 15.30hrs and put that in their mg11 as evidence of said offence but what authority has been used to obtain such communication data as offence? Its no different to seizing a drug dealers phone to use the messages/call data as evidence meeds ripa authority before exam/download etc.
BigG1985
The purpose of me having my phone in my hand was I had taken my phone into the service station to use the free wifi and put it back into my pocket with loose change I realised and didn't want to scratch the screen therefore I simply took the phone from my pocket to prevent it from becoming damaged I know it sounds improbable for me to get caught and pulled in the act of this but it is the truth am I better just taking the course and standing the £100?
Peppipoo316
QUOTE (BigG1985 @ Sun, 22 May 2016 - 16:21) *
The purpose of me having my phone in my hand was I had taken my phone into the service station to use the free wifi and put it back into my pocket with loose change I realised and didn't want to scratch the screen therefore I simply took the phone from my pocket to prevent it from becoming damaged I know it sounds improbable for me to get caught and pulled in the act of this but it is the truth am I better just taking the course and standing the £100?


Consider this as a bad luck. I despise these drivers on the phone whilst driving and it just baffles me how they can get away so easily. Few days back I noticed a truck driver on a busy road in Central London stationary 25 metres before a signal, so hooked up with his phone that he forgot to move ahead even after the Green light was on for more than 5 seconds thus holding traffic on the back who had to unfortunately wait in the signal as it turned red as the truck driver just went past the signal when it turned amber. Pity those drivers on the back didn't even realise they were punished for someone else's fault.

Life is not always fair.
southpaw82
QUOTE (fergies_army @ Sun, 22 May 2016 - 15:46) *
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sun, 22 May 2016 - 11:59) *
QUOTE (fergies_army @ Sun, 22 May 2016 - 12:07) *
Communication data = The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (c.23) ..... Thats ehy

Are you suggesting that RIPA prevents police officers from examining mobile phones to see whether they have been used?



Police examine your text messages and observe you sent your mum a text saying i love you at 15.30hrs and put that in their mg11 as evidence of said offence but what authority has been used to obtain such communication data as offence? Its no different to seizing a drug dealers phone to use the messages/call data as evidence meeds ripa authority before exam/download etc.

Other than it being done with consent, and thus not the same at all. Can you point to the provision of RIPA that would be breached in these circumstances?
Unzippy
QUOTE (BigG1985 @ Sun, 22 May 2016 - 16:21) *
The purpose of me having my phone in my hand was I had taken my phone into the service station to use the free wifi and put it back into my pocket with loose change I realised and didn't want to scratch the screen therefore I simply took the phone from my pocket to prevent it from becoming damaged I know it sounds improbable for me to get caught and pulled in the act of this but it is the truth am I better just taking the course and standing the £100?



Yes, unfortunately.
jdh
QUOTE (BigG1985 @ Sun, 22 May 2016 - 16:21) *
The purpose of me having my phone in my hand was I had taken my phone into the service station to use the free wifi and put it back into my pocket with loose change I realised and didn't want to scratch the screen therefore I simply took the phone from my pocket to prevent it from becoming damaged I know it sounds improbable for me to get caught and pulled in the act of this but it is the truth am I better just taking the course and standing the £100?

Driving and Using are the key points, driving is a given but the Using on the face of it gives you a chance of successfully defending in court. How much of a fight are you up for? How much time and money are you prepared to gamble?
BigG1985
In honesty im not so I will just take it on the chin it annoys me as I don't use my phone while driving my van has hands free if I need to make phone calls.

Cheers for the replys
Roverboy
Has anyone else managed to successfully use the "Jimmy Carr" defence as we know of ?
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