Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Outside lane of motorway with trailer.
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
TickTac
Hello,

I received a NIP for my vehicle being used in lane 3 of a Motorway and this was prohibited by regulations 12(2) Of the Motorway Traffic (England & Wales) regulations 1982, sections 17(4) of the Road Traffic Regulations Act & schedule 2 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988. No more detail other than I was the registered keeper of the car at the time. On the specified date, time & location. It is a standard road car which led to my confusion.

I contacted the issuing officer by e-mail (took some effort to get through to someone about doing so) and he said was kind enough to leave a polite reply clearing up some of the details: that the vehicle was used in lane 3 towing a trailer and was prohibited by Regulation 12 of the Motorways Traffic (England and Wales) Regulations 1982. Then asking me to fill in the noninated driver form.

I have filled this in and returned it.

I have since received a letter stating: Drive/stop/cause to remain at rest a goods vehicle drawing a trailer in offside lane of a motorway. My concern is that the letter then starts: 'I refer to the above alleged motoring offence for which you were stopped at the time by a Police Officer.'

At no point was I stopped, questioned or made aware of this alleged offence until I received the NIP. Yes i was driving at the time with an unladen car trailer and I am aware using lane three is prohibited and was not aware i had done so. (No roadworks or other reason to). I may be wrong and with a trailer have moved into this lane and will accept reaponsibility for this. But I am confused as I was not stopped and have no evidence to show this occured, yet the letter states so.

The letter continues: '....matter cannot be settled by attending an educational workshop....settle out of court by accepting a fixed penalty notice of £100 and 3 penalty points....'

There is no option to appeal but it does say 'failure to meet the Fixed Penalty requirements would result in your case being processed for a court hearing for which you would be sent a summons in due course.'

I'd like to query this whole scenario. Should I contact someone, the original issuing officer, the central ticket office clerk who sent this second letter, or contact someone else to say i want to appeal or just sit and wait for a court date (I dont want to seem ignorant by ignoring this letter).

If I goto court, will the officer make an effort to be present? If I plead not guilty and there is evidence to show I was in lane 3, (by which i of course am happy to agree with) can i say I accept that or would I be hit with a more severe penalty?

I'm sure I wasn't in lane 3, however, why would someone from the police lie about it. So i'd just like to clear things up.

All support is appreciated.
Thanks.
southpaw82
If you "appeal" (which in reality means ignoring any offer of a fixed penalty and going to court) and you maintain a not guilty plea and are convicted you face an income related fine, costs (around £620), and a surcharge. Considering by your own admission you're guilty this doesn't immediately present itself as a good plan.
baroudeur
QUOTE (TickTac @ Sat, 23 Apr 2016 - 14:47) *
Hello,

I received a NIP for my vehicle being used in lane 3 of a Motorway and this was prohibited by regulations 12(2) Of the Motorway Traffic (England & Wales) regulations 1982, sections 17(4) of the Road Traffic Regulations Act & schedule 2 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988. No more detail other than I was the registered keeper of the car at the time. On the specified date, time & location. It is a standard road car which led to my confusion.

I contacted the issuing officer by e-mail (took some effort to get through to someone about doing so) and he said was kind enough to leave a polite reply clearing up some of the details: that the vehicle was used in lane 3 towing a trailer and was prohibited by Regulation 12 of the Motorways Traffic (England and Wales) Regulations 1982. Then asking me to fill in the noninated driver form.

I have filled this in and returned it.

I have since received a letter stating: Drive/stop/cause to remain at rest a goods vehicle drawing a trailer in offside lane of a motorway. My concern is that the letter then starts: 'I refer to the above alleged motoring offence for which you were stopped at the time by a Police Officer.'

At no point was I stopped, questioned or made aware of this alleged offence until I received the NIP. Yes i was driving at the time with an unladen car trailer and I am aware using lane three is prohibited and was not aware i had done so. (No roadworks or other reason to). I may be wrong and with a trailer have moved into this lane and will accept reaponsibility for this. But I am confused as I was not stopped and have no evidence to show this occured, yet the letter states so.

The letter continues: '....matter cannot be settled by attending an educational workshop....settle out of court by accepting a fixed penalty notice of £100 and 3 penalty points....'

There is no option to appeal but it does say 'failure to meet the Fixed Penalty requirements would result in your case being processed for a court hearing for which you would be sent a summons in due course.'

I'd like to query this whole scenario. Should I contact someone, the original issuing officer, the central ticket office clerk who sent this second letter, or contact someone else to say i want to appeal or just sit and wait for a court date (I dont want to seem ignorant by ignoring this letter).

If I goto court, will the officer make an effort to be present? If I plead not guilty and there is evidence to show I was in lane 3, (by which i of course am happy to agree with) can i say I accept that or would I be hit with a more severe penalty?

I'm sure I wasn't in lane 3, however, why would someone from the police lie about it. So i'd just like to clear things up.

All support is appreciated.
Thanks.



Which motorway and at what location?

If you weren't stopped at the time then probably it was a fixed camera that recorded the incident rather than observation by a police officer in a car unless it was from an overbridge or police hard shoulder standing.

Whilst you say you are not aware that you had done so it seems you may have some doubt and perhaps you have done so on previous occasions?
TickTac
M5 near Junction 23. Unless the junction camera's picked something up, there are no fixed camera's in that area.

I havent done it before and the reason for my doubt is i do not think someone would make a false accusation. However could an irate motorist dislike my driving and have reported this incident to police as 'revenge' ? Hence all of this? I do not make a habit of bad driving. Again, what would the policy be in the case of a member of the public reporting this? Would i even be made aware of that?

I'm tempted to just contact the officer who i initially contacted and see what they say.
NewJudge
First of all you need to sort out this discrepancy:

QUOTE (TickTac @ Sat, 23 Apr 2016 - 15:47) *
I may be wrong and with a trailer have moved into this lane and will accept reaponsibility for this.


QUOTE (TickTac @ Sat, 23 Apr 2016 - 15:47) *
I'm sure I wasn't in lane 3,


Then you need to think about the question you have already asked:

QUOTE (TickTac @ Sat, 23 Apr 2016 - 15:47) *
however, why would someone from the police lie about it.


Then you need to decide do you want to accept the offer of a Fixed Penalty or go to court and plead Not Guilty. Only if you choose the latter option will the evidence against you be made available. There is nothing in between (other than opt to go to court and plead guilty, which is pointless). There is no "appeal" as such. If you dispute the matter at this stage then you face a trial.

QUOTE (TickTac @ Sat, 23 Apr 2016 - 15:47) *
If I goto court, will the officer make an effort to be present?


The evidence may not be a "live" observation by an officer but may be, as has been mentioned, detection by camera. If it is a live observation It will not be for the observing officer to make an effort. If, having seen his evidence, you disagree with it you can insist he attends court to give his evidence in person and cross-examine him on it.

QUOTE (TickTac @ Sat, 23 Apr 2016 - 15:47) *
If I plead not guilty and there is evidence to show I was in lane 3, (by which i of course am happy to agree with) can i say I accept that or would I be hit with a more severe penalty?


Yes, as southpaw has described.

The difficulty you face is that in order to see the evidence you must reject the offer of a fixed penalty. Once you do that it is lost forever (the court will not sentence you in an equivalent manner). The best you can hope for in that scenario is that you see the evidence then change your plea (assuming you are guilty) at the earliest opportunity. The prosecution may ask for lower costs and you will still get about 25% discount on the fine. But it will still cost you considerably more than £100. From your point of view, since you are not sure that you have committed the offence you must decide whether to take it on the chin or risk a bill of, at best a few hundred pounds and at worst £800 plus. Basically, you must pay to see the evidence. Whilst you may consider that unfair, the idea of a Fixed Penalty is for motorists who accept they have offended to have the matter dealt with without going to court and at a considerably reduced penalty. If you don't accept that you have offended (or are not sure but want to find out) you must go down the "traditional" route.
andy_foster
Some posters seem to have difficulty in distinguishing between the lack of a legal right to see evidence, and the possibility of being allowed to see it if you ask nicely.
NewJudge
Yes the OP could always ask nicely. I was describing what would happen if his request fell on deaf ears.
baroudeur
QUOTE (TickTac @ Sat, 23 Apr 2016 - 16:49) *
M5 near Junction 23. Unless the junction camera's picked something up, there are no fixed camera's in that area.

I havent done it before and the reason for my doubt is i do not think someone would make a false accusation. However could an irate motorist dislike my driving and have reported this incident to police as 'revenge' ? Hence all of this? I do not make a habit of bad driving. Again, what would the policy be in the case of a member of the public reporting this? Would i even be made aware of that?

I'm tempted to just contact the officer who i initially contacted and see what they say.


By fixed cameras I meant the observation cameras on motorways.

M5 J23 camera here
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.