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Full Version: Witness statement out of time refused...HELP ME PLEASE!
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Hi PLEASE! help me somebody!!

I woke up one morning to find my car clamped and have never received a PCN in the post. The bailiff provided me with a few basic details and i have been trying to understand and fight this ever since.


Looks like the PCN was sent to an old address (my ex lives there and she never told me) so was advised to apply for "Witness statement out of time" to the Traffic Enforcement Center. I Did this and it was refused (stated that they do not have to give me a reason on the letter). It also states that if i want to apply for a review that i will have to pay and i do not have money for this as i just got married.

I have no idea what to do next as i didn't even get the chance to appeal the PCN. I have done some reading and there is definitely something not right about the PCN that i was originally issued. This happened in Feb 2015 and now i got the PCN number i was able to look at the evidence online.

I am sure that i just pulled up to pick someone up if my memory serves me correctly and this was at 8pm at night. it looked like a parking bay (but looking at the evidence i can see the words "taxi" although i don't think i noticed at the time) i have done some reading and think that the taxi bay didnt conform to regulations anyhow as it was outlined with white dashed lines and there where no single or double yellow lines running through it. (information from: )

I am not able to appeal as it was last year but i never even got the PCN and still haven't got it (only online). What can i do? I just got the refusal today (even though it was sent on the 29th of march) and am running out of time. I don't want another clamp as i use my car for work.

Any advice would be really appreciated. Happy to send picture evidence if needed.

Thanks in advance,

Out of interest, what address was on your V5C?

If your old address, have you now updated it?
Yes it was wrong but have updated. I sent the V5 form before but they lost it/claimed they never received it, so had to pay for new one.
Neil B
Show us the forms TE7 and TE9 you submitted to TEC.

Also, you should have received a copy of the Council's objection to your application.
That too please.
What date is on the rejection notice from Northampton County Court?
Please post up the text of your reasons for being late that you put on the Out Of Time (TE7) application.
What ground did you select on the Witness Statement TE9?
The Council would have sent you a letter detailing why they oppose your OOT application. This is called a Statement Of Truth. Please post up a scrubbed scan of the SOT.

Complete pages only please. Scrubbed = obscure or redact your name & address if applicable, PCN number and vehicle reg. Please leave everything else visible especially all time, date, location and council info.

Photos are fine if you have no scanner. Please make sure the images are flat and well lit. Use close-up / macro mode if available. Try and have the images the right way up, some of the members won't even try and read them if they are sideways. Don't try and re-size the images, let the forum software handle that.

Some judiciously cut up pieces of paper, eg post-it note, are good for obscuring. Please leave visible all time, date, location and council/enforcement authority info.

Please open a free of charge basic account on somewhere like or or similar. I use tinypic without complaint. There are numerous others. Log in and upload your scans, photos etc. Copy and paste the provided IMG links into your posts on here. Et voilà!
Neil B
Don't bury your head in the sand, you will lose more.

Post the docs asap.
Hi Guys,

Sorry for the delay, been a little hectic. Please find all docs attached.

Do you need anything else?

Thanks guys!

Bailiff Advice
When completing an Out of Time witness statement you really should either come here first (which can be difficult in cases of emergency) or otherwise, read the guidance notes from TEC carefully.

The key point to consider when submitting the forms is to explain the reason WHY the application is being made LATE.

This could be due to somebody being overseas for a long period (evidence of travel arrangements required), being in hospital for a long period (evidence again required) OR, more commonly; because all notices had been sent to a previous address. In cases such as this, you really must provide further details. For instance, you should provide the date that you moved, date that you may have updated your records with DVLA and if not updated, an explanation as to why. Some form of evidence regarding moving date can be helpful.

You have provided so little information on the form that it was inevitable that the application would not be accepted.

Did you receive a copy of the local authorities letter to TEC outlining the reason why they wished to oppose your application.
No I have not received anything from the TEC yet.
Bailiff Advice
QUOTE (phillmac @ Sun, 10 Apr 2016 - 11:09) *
No I have not received anything from the TEC yet.

Contact TEC in the morning and ask them for a copy. You need to see the reasons before deciding whether or not to file an N244
ok will do
The deadline to submit an N244 application is Wednesday the 13th April. Please don't miss the deadline. If necessary you can fax the forms or scan them as PDF and email to the TEC. Follow up with a phone call to confirm receipt and to pay via debit card, this is not advertised but they seem to do it. If you want to use mail then post 1st class at the post office counter and obtain and keep safe a free of charge "proof of posting" certificate. Include a cheque. Post well before last post. And be aware that tomorrow Monday is strictly speaking the last possible day to post.

The letter from the TEC says "The response from the local authority with regards to your out of time application should already have been served to you." IE the Council should have sent a copy (of the Statement of Truth) to the "respondent" address you put on the Out of Time application. Alas it seems that some local authorities consider that they don't have to bother with informing the respondent as to why they oppose the application.

It's quite likely that the TEC helpdesk will say they cannot help with the SOT and advise you to contact the Council. So ring the Council and demand to know why they didn't send you a copy and ask them to email it immediately. Promptly follow up the request to the Council in writing. Good luck with that.

So it's quite likely that you won't get a copy of the SOT in time. If required mention on your N244 application that your application is made without benefit of sight of the Council's reasons for opposing your Out of Time application in the first place. It's vital to get your application submitted on time.
It may have been the TEC themselves that refused the OOT.
In which case there will be no council rejection.

OP needs to ascertain who it was that rejected - TEC or council

I have attached the letter from the council. they emailed it because for some unknown reason they are still using my old address. I called them to ask fro next steps but they said i have to pay Equita (the bailiffs) of apply for a court hearing (N244). The issue is i just don't have the money to appeal or pay the fine as i just got married and am in £2k worth of debt on my credit card also.

I called Equita and explained my situation and they asked me to write an email (which i have done) simply outlining the situation as i have done in these posts.

next steps?
Neil B
QUOTE (phillmac @ Mon, 11 Apr 2016 - 14:10) *
next steps?

I'm at a loss.

I could list all the things you immediately need to do, including clarifying misunderstand some advice/questions so far but
what's the point: If you no money to act then there is nothing we can say.

IF you want to proceed, you need £100 and it will not be recoverable, win or lose.

Harsh but the reality.
surely i should not be charged so much for something i knew nothing about....just seems so wrong. Thanks for trying to help but as i have no cash looks like i'm going to suffer.

QUOTE (phillmac @ Mon, 11 Apr 2016 - 19:06) *
surely i should not be charged so much for something i knew nothing about....just seems so wrong. Thanks for trying to help but as i have no cash looks like i'm going to suffer.

But surely you will need cash to deal with the bailiffs ? And their charges will be far more than £100. Or are you happy to see your car lifted onto a flat-bed, and taken away ?

The letter you have posted is a notice telling you that the Council intend to pursue the matter. Alas it is not the Statement of Truth which we have asked for.

When you submitted your Witness Statement (form TE9) together with the application to submit the WS 'out of time' (form TE7), the TEC (Teaffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton County Court) would have sent copies to Harringey. Assuming Harringey wished to oppose your application then Harringey, as Enforcement Authority, would have sent a letter to the TEC detailing why they oppose your OOT application. This letter is called a ' Statement of Truth'. Harringey should have sent a copy of this Statement Of Truth to you, at the same time, to the "Respondent" address you put on the forms.

We can assume that such a SOT was sent to the TEC because the letter rejecting your TE7 application includes the phrase; "The response from the local authority with regards to your out of time application should already have been served to you."

So that's the document you're looking for, however you're unlikely to see it before the N244 deadline expires.

You have not said if or how much you paid the bailiff, if anything? My guess is that the bailiff demanded £512 to release the car? Please confirm?

The bottom line is that you are now going to have to invest a further £100 in order to recover/avoid some or all of the £512. These N244 applications are pretty routine and are mostly granted. So it's a good bet. Assuming that is the case here and your N244 is successful then the TEC will have to accept your Witness Statement. The TEC will then issue an order revoking the bailiff's warrant, the Order for Recovery and cancelling the Charge Certificate. Harringey and the bailiff will have to refund the £512. Harringey will have to serve a new postal PCN/Notice to Owner on you in order to continue to enforce. Effectively the process is reset. This new PCN/NTO you can appeal or pay in the normal manner. So if you ultimately lost your liability would be the £130 PCN rate. So a possible loss of £230 (£100 + £130) versus the current £512. If you win at appeal you would still be out of pocket by the £100 N244 fee which you are unlikely to ever get back.

So please consider the money and see can you find the £100.

Also if you are on benefits you might qualify for fee remission for the N244 application. Download form EX160a and read the guidance notes.
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