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SuddenlyCarLess
Ten years ago I moved house and updated my driving licence, getting a new photocard with my new address. Last month it expired and I went to the post office and renewed it. A couple of weeks later I receive a medical form to fill in (in 2011 I'd informed the DVLA that I had diabetes treated with insulin), I filled it in and sent it off expecting my renewed licence in due course.

This morning I received a letter containing a D1 form, asking me to reapply for a licence as my licence has expired. I suspect I'm caught in a never ending circle of bureaucracy so phone them to ask exactly what is going on. They tell me that I need to fill in the D1 as my licence was revoked back in 2011 when they did not receive a reply to the medical questionnaire they sent me then.

After much argument and many denials from me about ever having received that questionnaire in 2011 it turns out that they sent it, and the followup notice that my licence was being revoked, to the address I moved from in 2006, and not the new address they'd had on file for five years. Unsurprising then that I never saw it.

So now I've filled in the D1 and posted it, but can't drive in the mean time. This is going to cause me considerable expense and inconvenience and all down to the incompetance of the DVLA. Do I have any legal recourse against them?
peterguk
QUOTE (SuddenlyCarLess @ Wed, 30 Mar 2016 - 19:14) *
Do I have any legal recourse against them?


Knowing DVLA, and their seemingly unlimited powers, i doubt it.
uk_mike
Make a formal complain to the DVLA. If you don't get a satisfactory reply you can then ask your MP|to refer the matter to the Parlimentary Ombudsman

Alternatively you could take the Secretary of State for Transport to court and argue that the DVLA's actions amount to a failure in his duty of care.

The former option is easier and does not carry the financial risks associated with losing in court.
bama
have they changed the rules ?

IIRC the expired photo did not expire the licence - although the DVLA (and others) liked to say it did.
What is the exact text of the letter from the DVLA - minus personal info of course
baroudeur
QUOTE (bama @ Thu, 31 Mar 2016 - 09:20) *
have they changed the rules ?

IIRC the expired photo did not expire the licence - although the DVLA (and others) liked to say it did.
What is the exact text of the letter from the DVLA - minus personal info of course



The licence appears to have been revoked on medical grounds in that the D1 form was not returned.

"I need to fill in the D1 as my licence was revoked back in 2011 when they did not receive a reply to the medical questionnaire they sent me then".

It's a coincidence that the OP didn't discover this until attempting to renew the photo on its expiry after ten years.
Logician
QUOTE (bama @ Thu, 31 Mar 2016 - 09:20) *
have they changed the rules ? IIRC the expired photo did not expire the licence - although the DVLA (and others) liked to say it did. What is the exact text of the letter from the DVLA - minus personal info of course


As I understand what the OP is saying, the photo expired and going through the process of renewing it revealed that the licence itself had been revoked in 2011 because the medical questionnaire sent by the DVLA to the wrong address had not been returned to them; the notice of revocation was also sent to the wrong address.

I do wonder whether on moving in 2006 the OP fell into the trap that catches so many, of changing the address for his vehicle on its V5C, and expecting the address of his driving licence to be changed as well, which does not happen.

SuddenlyCarLess
Thanks all, I'll pursue a complaint with the DVLA. In the meantime I'll hassle them daily about the status of my licence, as I suspect that D1 isn't the last form they'll ask me for.

Logician is correct, my photocard had reached it's ten year expiry and the renewal attempt has exposed the revocation. (though the letter I received from DVLA containing the D1 doesn't mention that my licence has been revoked, only that it's due to expire and I need to fill in the D1, it's when calling them to find out why I needed to fill in another application, after the one at the post office a month ago, that they told me my licence was revoked)

DVLA definitely had my new address back in 2006, they issued a new photocard and paper counterpart showing the new address.
The Rookie
In that case there is an argument that your licence was never revoked, DVLA have to inform you AIUI, as they failed to do so, that should (this is DVLA we are talking about) render it a nullity and they should acknowledge that fact.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/93
2(a) serve notice in writing, sending to the wrong address is nit service IMO.
jdh
DVLA do on occasion pull an old address out of the hat instead of the current one, it happened to my wife a few years ago where a NIP & S172 was sent not to the current address, nor the previous one but to the one prior to that.
SuddenlyCarLess
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 31 Mar 2016 - 15:29) *
In that case there is an argument that your licence was never revoked... sending to the wrong address is nit service IMO.


That's exactly the argument I was having with them on Wednesday, they weren't having it. Even the grounds for the revocation seem suspect, I didn't fail to return the medical form as they never asked me to complete it. (Sending the form to my five year old address, it was as likely to reach me as if they printed it and immediately shredded it)
The Rookie
Have they explained why they sent it to a five year old address at all when you have the licence in the correct address from circa 10 years ago?
Unzippy
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 1 Apr 2016 - 08:53) *
Have they explained why they sent it to a five year old address at all when you have the licence in the correct address from circa 10 years ago?



Of course not. The only possible answer is that they are incompetent or made a "mistake". We all know DVLA is neither of these biggrin.gif
Taff In Notts
Having had to stop driving three times because of medical issues and had my licence revoked twice on medical grounds I have some experience of dealing with the DVLA on these matters.

In order to get your licence back ASAP, the Medical Branch of DVLA is the department you need to contact. That is the department that will have revoked your licence (rightly or wrongly) on non-receipt of the D1 form.

IIRC, on the D1 form, the DVLA ask for your permission so they can contact your GP in order for them to get information on your medical condition.
You don’t really have much of an option but to give that permission because they will simply revoke your licence until they get the information they require.

So the Medical Branch will not only be waiting for the D1 form, they will also be waiting for a report from your GP on your medical condition.
In your case I suspect they will want confirmation that you can recognise the signs of hypos, etc and that you check your blood sugar levels regularly whenever you are driving (again IIRC, somewhere along the lines of every 2 hours for long journeys).

From my experience, the Medical Branch are happy to receive emailed or faxed copies of medical reports from your GP, they do not have to go via snail mail.
In my case, one of the consultants I saw faxed through a report to DVLA and, when I contacted them the next day I was advised that my licence had been issued that day and I could drive immediately.

Hope this helps and good luck in getting it sorted.

Regards
Taff
SuddenlyCarLess
This is showing no sign of being resolved any time soon. Two weeks in, they still haven't received my D1 I posted (which apparently takes up to two weeks for them to scan), they helpfully inform me this Monday that I could have sent it via email (despite me asking repeatedly if that was an option), so I've now emailed them a scan as well, which in theory only takes them five days to receive.

I got a response to my complaint which basically said 'yeah we sent the letter to the wrong address, staff trained to highest standards... work with great care and precision..., you're still revoked, fill in the D1 and wait, it takes as long as it takes'

So I'm now working on another complaint to the chief executive, no doubt with a similar positive outcome.
The Rookie
Quote the statute above, they have admitted the licence was not revoked as required by law but refusing to correct the situation by reinstating immediately.
StuartBu
QUOTE (Logician @ Thu, 31 Mar 2016 - 09:43) *
I do wonder whether on moving in 2006 the OP fell into the trap that catches so many, of changing the address for his vehicle on its V5C, and expecting the address of his driving licence to be changed as well, which does not happen.


Whereas others notify a change of address for Licence purposes expecting the V5C to have it's address details changed at the same time !!
Gan
We know which causes the more problems
StuartBu
QUOTE (Gan @ Wed, 13 Apr 2016 - 21:13) *
We know which causes the more problems


Indeed we do ...!!!
ford poplar
I am no friend of DVLA, but OP could make a Personal Access Request, under FIO provisions, requiring DVLA to provide copies of all communications sent/received bearing his name/attributable details since date he actually moved to present date.
Establishes additional supporting evidential time lie.whether email is acceptable.
Also ask what other documentation, in addition to latest D1, is required to reinstate DL asap.
Fredd
QUOTE (ford poplar @ Thu, 14 Apr 2016 - 05:31) *
I am no friend of DVLA, but OP could make a Personal Subject Access Request, under FIO Data Protection Act provisions, requiring DVLA to provide copies of all communications sent/received bearing his name/attributable personally identifiable details since from the date he actually moved to present date.
Establishes additional supporting evidential time line. lie.whether email is acceptable.
Also ask what other documentation, in addition to latest D1, is required to reinstate DL asap.

FTFY. Half of this wasn't really comprehensible, but some of what was, is incorrect.
fedup2
Dvla cost me some day's off work due to the doctor filling out my form with the eye test apparently in the old format despite standing over him and making him check and double check the form due to errors made five yrs previous.
The doctors scanned all my stuff which did speed things up alot,infact I think I ended up with 2 lots of licence and kicked out of the docs in the end due to them Sussing id moved out of their catchment area 20 yrs prior.



SuddenlyCarLess
QUOTE (ford poplar @ Thu, 14 Apr 2016 - 05:31) *
Also ask what other documentation, in addition to latest D1, is required to reinstate DL asap.


Thanks. I'm calling them every day. I ask them the same questions every time.

What is the status of my licence renewal? "we're waiting for the D1"
Is there any more information you need? "No, just the D1" (we'll see...)
Is there anything I can do to speed up this process? "No" (as stated, mysteriously on Monday this became "well you could have faxed or emailed the D1", I guess I got the competent member of staff that day)
nosferatu1001
Have you quoted the legislation at them?
Taff In Notts
Did the D1 Form ask for the details of your GP/Consultants?
SuddenlyCarLess
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 14 Apr 2016 - 16:54) *
Have you quoted the legislation at them?


I have, it's had no effect over the phone. They insist that sending the letters to my old address is the notice they are required to give, which is clearly farcical. I've also referred to it in my second complaint, to the chief executive, as they've quoted Section 97 and the requirement to reapply after a revocation. I've questioned the revocation itself, on the basis of no valid notice being issued.

I realise I'm trying to apply common sense to the DVLA but it would seem obvious that either my licence hasn't actually been revoked, despite what their systems say, as the correct procedure wasn't followed, or that my licence has been revoked, but not legally, as they haven't complied with the requirement to give notice.

I'm failing to see what role the call center/help desk people actually serve, they can't do anything or pass me to anyone who can, or offer any solution other than going through the re-application process which really doesn't seem appropriate, and seems likely to take forever. The woman I spoke to last night was confused as to why I'd even called as I'd called the previous day, as though it's madness to expect them to have actually done anything.


QUOTE (Taff In Notts @ Thu, 14 Apr 2016 - 19:19) *
Did the D1 Form ask for the details of your GP/Consultants?


that came earlier, the timeline roughly is:

27th february - renew licence at post office
9th march - receive medical questionnaire asking for gp details and stuff, posted back on the 10th
30th march - receive d1 form and a letter saying as my licence is due to be expire it needs to be renewed - at which point i call them as the letter makes no sense to me, and i find out about the revocation.

I should add, I wasn't caring about how long the process was taking as the guy at the post office assured me it was ok to keep driving while the renewal was being processed, It was only after I called them on the 30th and found out about the revocation that I've being calling them daily, as obviously every day is costing me now I can't drive.
Taff In Notts
Have you telephoned the DVLA Medical Branch? (Tel No. is 0844 453 0118) They are more than likely the department that has revoked your licence.

Did the medical questionnaire ask specific questions about your diabetes or was it general medical questions? The reason I ask is because there are specific questions they ask for insulin dependant diabetes sufferers. I believe that now there is even an online version of the Diabetes form they use to send out.

Since completing and return the Medical questionnaire, has the DVLA contacted your GP? They will almost certainly contact your GP to confirm your medical condition.

If the Medical Branch are responsible for revoking your licence, then dealing with them and giving them the information they require on your medical condition is probably going to be quickest way to get your licence back.

Regards
Taff
SuddenlyCarLess
QUOTE (Taff In Notts @ Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 20:04) *
Have you telephoned the DVLA Medical Branch?


The medical branch are who I am calling every single day. Supposedly nothing can be progressed until they receive a D1 form from me, but it is seemingly impossible to actually get a D1 form to them. Neither the one I posted or the one I emailed have made it through their system. Their only suggestion is that I send them again.

> dealing with them and giving them the information they require on your medical condition is probably going to be quickest way to get your licence back.

that's what I thought when this whole thing started, though I felt I shouldn't need to reapply for a licence as they seemed to have no grounds for the revocation, it being based on the DVLAs mistake. I've given them every bit of information they've asked for, within minutes of being asked, but this shows no sign of ever being over, and it's clear from the response I received to my first complaint that the DVLA don't give a **** how many mistakes they make.

If there's no progress on Monday I intend to contact a solicitor to dispute the revocation on the grounds discussed earlier in this thread, no notice was given as they wrote to the wrong address, and i didn't fail to return the questionnaire in 2007 as it was never sent to me.

If they reinstate my licence so I can drive they can take all the time in the world to make their medical enquiries, but right now I am hundreds of pounds out of pocket and with a real possibility of losing my job because of their incompetence, both in 2011 and now.
Taff In Notts
QUOTE (SuddenlyCarLess @ Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 20:59) *
Supposedly nothing can be progressed until they receive a D1 form from me


Have they confirmed that they are happy with your medical condition and the info they have on that, i.e. it won't hold up the re-issuing of your licence if and when they ever get the D1 form?
Taff In Notts
QUOTE (SuddenlyCarLess @ Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 20:59) *
If they reinstate my licence so I can drive they can take all the time in the world to make their medical enquiries


I'm sorry to have to say that, as there is a medical issue behind this, I seriously doubt that they will reinstate your licence until all their medical enquiries are complete. There attitude is always safety first with medical issues.
On the three occasions I had to stop driving for medical issues, it took me on average nine months each time to get my licence back. But in my case they were waiting for the results from numerous medical tests. I never had any issues with missing or non receipt of forms.
The Rookie
The issue here though is that the licence hasn't actually been revoked, the notification required by law to revoke the licence wasn't sent in the manner required, so as such although DVLA say its revoked it hasn't been (if that makes sense as such DVLA) should correct their records to show it as not being revoked and then go through the correct procedure.

Though I wouldn't recommend it as it would be hard to unravel the implications, legally in my opinion the OP can continue driving as the DVLA claim to have revoked their licence is a nullity.

As DVLA are dragging their heels over the D1, I'd now be screaming blue murder at them to 'reinstate' the licence based on it not actually having been revoked.
SuddenlyCarLess
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 16 Apr 2016 - 07:00) *
The issue here though is that the licence hasn't actually been revoked


Yep, the procedure they're forcing me through is the one for where a licence has been revoked on medical grounds and you need to reapply with a D1. They 'revoked' my licence because I didn't return a form they never sent. AIUI, were my license to be reinstated, Section 88 would allow me to continue to drive while the medical info is checked, which would have been what happened in 2011 had the DVLA had the competence to send a form to the right address.

Like I said, I'll have one last go on Monday and turn it over to a solicitor if (when) I get no result.

[Edit]

looks like I'll be quoting this to them on Monday:

QUOTE
107 Service of notices.

[F1A notice authorised to be served on any person under this Part or Part IV of this Act or a Community licence required to be returned to its holder by section [F299B, 99E or 109A] of this Act may be served on, or returned to him] by delivering it to him or by leaving it at his proper address or by sending it to him by post; and for the purposes of this section and section 7 of the M1Interpretation Act 1978 in its application to this section the proper address of any person shall be his latest address as known to the person serving the notice.


given my photocard from years earlier shows my correct address, this seems pretty conclusive that notice has not been served.
Unzippy
Maybe it's time to involve your MP?
SuddenlyCarLess
Well now I'm ******* angry. I found out what happened to the D1 I emailed on Monday. It has been rejected as incomplete, despite being filled in EXACTLY as the Drivers Medical Group instructed. Their response when I call them? "I can only advise you send the form in again, with a cover note"

One tiny hint of a silver lining, it was rejected within a day of being emailed, though they then took four days to tell me by post, despite the form containing my email and phone number.

QUOTE (Unzippy @ Sat, 16 Apr 2016 - 10:04) *
Maybe it's time to involve your MP?


supposedly this isn't an option yet. I need a response to my complaint to the chief executive, and then need to refer the complaint to the Independent Complaint Assessor if there's still no resolution. Only after that can I ask my MP to refer the complaint to the Parliamentary and Health Ombudsman.

I'll bet all that is still faster than getting a D1 accepted by the DVLA though.
The Rookie
You can go to your own MP at any stage, it can only go to the ombudsman after the complaint route has been exhausted.
SuddenlyCarLess
Finally got my licence back, it looks like the second complaint quoting sections 93 and 107 did the trick, the first complaint seems to have been handled by someone with no more knowledge or authority than the call centre people.
The Rookie
Well done.....
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