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Zwypl
My father passed away last year, his car remained registered on his name. Three drivers are insured to drive the car. One of the insured drivers stopped for a few seconds and was told by a TFL CEO that she will get a PCN in the post, he kept his word! The PCN was overlooked and is now at £195 stage.

As I am out of time for reps, they will not even listen to me? I am only the son, what will they say to the fact that he is unfortunately dead long before the date of the alleged contra? who is responsible?

Thanks,
StuartBu
"One of the insured drivers stopped for a few seconds" So what was the contravention that caused the ticket to be issued ?
ford poplar
At what stage are we at?
PCN-driver resp, Father's Executor (as defacto RK) can nominate driver on s172
NTO - Executor can make Formal Reps as locum owner
Charge Cert and beyond - Deceased Estate pays, but I would expect Executor to recover fine from driver
If Probate granted and car transferred to beneficiary before PCN, then new owner is resp, with some awkwad Ins questions to answer IMO.
hcandersen
Who owns the vehicle?

You have rather skipped this detail. Your late father cannot legally be the registered keeper but according to you his name is still on the DVLA register. Your post refers to you being out of time to pay reps, but this has nothing to do with you unless you are the registered keeper or are performing a function associated with disposing of your father's assets.

So before we get immersed in the detail of parking or whatever regs, when did he die, have his assets been formally disposed of and most importantly to whom has the documentation from TfL been addressed?

NB. the insurance policy also cannot be in his name other than while the disposal of his assets is taking place.
Zwypl
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 30 Mar 2016 - 07:33) *
Who owns the vehicle?

Still on my fathers personal name.

You have rather skipped this detail. Your late father cannot legally be the registered keeper but according to you his name is still on the DVLA register. Your post refers to you being out of time to pay reps, but this has nothing to do with you unless you are the registered keeper or are performing a function associated with disposing of your father's assets.

My siblings use the car (only recently un-'sorned'), I am afraid that eventually the car can be clamped by a bailiff for £500+

So before we get immersed in the detail of parking or whatever regs, when did he die, have his assets been formally disposed of and most importantly to whom has the documentation from TfL been addressed?

He died around a year before the [alleged]contra date.
No probate yet on his assets.
PCN/NTO/CC in his personal name

NB. the insurance policy also cannot be in his name other than while the disposal of his assets is taking place.

As above, no probate granted yet, insurance was recently taken out on siblings and mothers name.
Zwypl
Who can help me please, how should I notify TFL of the situation? It is now @ £195!
ford poplar
See #3
Who are you in this scenario? Guilty driver, Executor, beneficiary owner of car, other Insured drive..

We have yet to see full PCN, alleged Contravention and any correspondence received/sent.
I guess the car is in imminent threat of being clamped/seized/sold by Bailiff's to recover the debt?
Zwypl
QUOTE (ford poplar @ Tue, 5 Apr 2016 - 04:26) *
See #3
Who are you in this scenario? Guilty driver, Executor, beneficiary owner of car, other Insured drive..

We have yet to see full PCN, alleged Contravention and any correspondence received/sent.
I guess the car is in imminent threat of being clamped/seized/sold by Bailiff's to recover the debt?


I am the Son of (My father) registered keeper.

nosferatu1001
Are you executor? beneficiary owner? other insured?

You havent answered the questions


POST UP DOCUMENTS. Cannot really help you otherwsie. Photobucket, scrub them free of personal details, use the IMG tags to post the pictures here so people dont have to follow links.

THe DVLA must be notified of the father being deceased.
Neil B
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 5 Apr 2016 - 11:44) *
You havent answered the questions

+1
Who exactly is administering your Father's estate?

I can only think that his estate is liable.

But it's all academic really: in view of this >
QUOTE (Zwypl @ Wed, 30 Mar 2016 - 01:23) *
The PCN was overlooked,

It just has to be paid.
hcandersen
I don't think so.

OP, rather than fire off questions to us I suggest you phone TfL and find out their position - tell them you are a relative and can supply a copy of the death certificate of the registered keeper.

I think they would cancel the penalty whether using their discretion or, as I believe, because the deceased has no liability and neither has their estate.

Inform TfL.
ford poplar
"as I believe, because the deceased has no liability and neither has their estate."


I disagree HCA, PCN may have been ignored, so prob has NTO, which transferred liability to Executor.
IIRC a deceased person's debts do not die with him, but are still due from his Estate.
Zwypl
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Tue, 5 Apr 2016 - 16:16) *
I don't think so.

OP, rather than fire off questions to us I suggest you phone TfL and find out their position - tell them you are a relative and can supply a copy of the death certificate of the registered keeper.

I think they would cancel the penalty whether using their discretion or, as I believe, because the deceased has no liability and neither has their estate.

Inform TfL.


I called them and they said that it was my duty to inform DVLA the change of the registered keeper. I said there was no change as probate has not yet been granted. They said I should send in a death certificate with my letter explaining the situation, I did so!

Thanks!
southpaw82
QUOTE (ford poplar @ Tue, 5 Apr 2016 - 16:45) *
"as I believe, because the deceased has no liability and neither has their estate."


I disagree HCA, PCN may have been ignored, so prob has NTO, which transferred liability to Executor.
IIRC a deceased person's debts do not die with him, but are still due from his Estate.

Even where liability arose after death? In any case, the father was not the owner of the vehicle at the time of the contravention, someone else was.
peterguk
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 5 Apr 2016 - 20:42) *
QUOTE (ford poplar @ Tue, 5 Apr 2016 - 16:45) *
"as I believe, because the deceased has no liability and neither has their estate."


I disagree HCA, PCN may have been ignored, so prob has NTO, which transferred liability to Executor.
IIRC a deceased person's debts do not die with him, but are still due from his Estate.

Even where liability arose after death? In any case, the father was not the owner of the vehicle at the time of the contravention, someone else was.


Does "someone" include the estate of the deceased prior to probate being completed?
southpaw82
A living natural person or a legal person.
hcandersen
And don't be too wide ranging with the term 'debt'. A penalty at this stage (or possibly ever) is not a debt in this sense whether individual or joint.
ford poplar
OK, rapidly leaving my knowledge comfort zone. When I referred to debt, (perhaps better term would have been liabilities,) I was thinking of bets that deceased could only have made before death, but which are still payable from Estate by Executor, who is also resp for paying deceased taxes, even those acctued after death, from Estate to obtain Probate.
Consider deceased was sole owner/LL of rented property at time of his demise, the Executor becomes de facto, temp LL, with all duties & resps, until property is legally transferred to ultimate beneficiary.
In this case, the car formed part of the Estate and Executor had duty to inform DVLA of RKs death and his Executor status, as per Deceased's bank & share accounts. He should then have received NtO, prior to distribution of asset and taken appropriate action ie paid Penalty from Estate and recovered it from appropriate named driver(s).
nosferatu1001
To OP - there HAS been a change in Registered Keeper. DVLA does nto record OWNER, but RK. Your late father cannot be the keeper any longer
hcandersen
OP, can we get away from debates among ourselves and focus on what you've done which as I understand it is to contact TfL who have asked you to send a copy of the death certificate.

You have sent this.

Presumably they requested this in order to tick their box that allows them to close the case, otherwise what would be the point, after all they are not the nations's registered keeper monitor.

OP, please confirm what TfL said.
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