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Plumbcrazy
Hi all, first time post so forgive any indiscretions smile.gif

I was ticketed parked here 29/11/2015. Providence Place Brighton alongside the wall with 'BRED', facing the houses.

Not knowing about this forum at the time, I immediately appealed as there are no yellow lines nor signage which I could spot. Please see the PCN below:





Fast foward to this week and I received the 3 - sided letter below (dated 21st Mar, received 24th Mar!) rejecting my appeal.






Given what the letter states regarding kerbstone markings, I honestly couldnt see any. The left hand picture in their letter when compared with this that I took at the time of discovering the ticket (submitted with my appeal) seems to show a mark but its not yellow. It looks more like where a marking was removed.
Looking on google maps, a (tiny) sign can be observed low down on the railings infront of the house, facing where I parked.

St Peters Street

This is infact in a different street to where I was parked/ticketed so is it still applicable? St Peters Str is a 2 way & Providence Place where I was parked is 1 way. I didnt see the sign when parking as was too busy checking for signs left & right of my parking position in the same street.

If anyone here could shed some light on why I was ticketed or if I have been wronged then I would be very grateful. I only have 10 or so days to either pay up or not.
MAny thanks
Incandescent
Not a very pretty place is it ? Dumpsville, I reckon ! However, you clearly didn't notice the sign on your way along Providence Place telling you that you were entering a Restricted Zone, with no waiting or loading at any time except in marked bays. You are not in a marked bay.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.8308014,-...3312!8i6656
DancingDad
Council make a very clear statement about yellow lines and kerb markings.
The trouble is that there don't seem to be any.
Streetview shows no markings last October so unless any painted since and are not visible in the photos provided, their own evidence seems to contradict the alleged contravention.

The ones in the next road, past the junction, are clearly terminated so have no effect.
Even if you had left a wheel over the DYL in front of you, there are no "loading" blips on that one.... and photo doesn't show that you had encroached.

I rather think that these signs may be the relevant ones but being as they do not mention them ??
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.8305522,-...3312!8i6656

Later edit:-
Snap, Incandescent found another zone entry sign.

However, that should have been pointed out in the rejection, not reliant on signs that obviously don't exist and, in the light of the zone, never would.
I really hate it when a council canna be bothered to put down correct information.
Especially when it seems that they are correct but for all the wrong reasons.
Incandescent
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 28 Mar 2016 - 22:02) *
Council make a very clear statement about yellow lines and kerb markings. The trouble is that there don't seem to be any. Streetview shows no markings last October so unless any painted since and are not visible in the photos provided, their own evidence seems to contradict the alleged contravention. The ones in the next road, past the junction, are clearly terminated so have no effect. Even if you had left a wheel over the DYL in front of you, there are no "loading" blips on that one.... and photo doesn't show that you had encroached. I rather think that these signs may be the relevant ones but being as they do not mention them ?? https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.8305522,-...3312!8i6656 Later edit:- Snap, Incandescent found another zone entry sign. However, that should have been pointed out in the rejection, not reliant on signs that obviously don't exist and, in the light of the zone, never would. I really hate it when a council canna be bothered to put down correct information. Especially when it seems that they are correct but for all the wrong reasons.


And a very lengthy time to respond to reps, but still with the usual Fob-Off letter ! Brighton council really are the pits ! They should be hanging their heads in shame at their useless administration.

hcandersen
OP, you have to make a choice whether to pay the discount (latest date 3 April) or fight on.

As regards the contravention, it occurred if you passed a Restricted Parking Zone sign as in the GSV links. Your only hope would therefore be a procedural impropriety on the part of the authority whose competence is brought into question by their tardy and incomplete response.

? is what we can see in evidence at the moment sufficient for you to win.

IMO, at this stage no because you still have to deal with the NTO and formal reps and they could 'redeem' themselves in their NOR, or damn themselves further. Who knows?
Plumbcrazy
Very grateful to you all for your very interesting comments.

Understand what I missed now and why I received the ticket. I rode thru that area this morning and there are no kerbstone markings at all.

Agree with you HCAnderson wrt to my line of appeal. I have a contact at the council who I'll try to speak first.

If I was not to pay & go down the formal repressentation route, does anyone know what this process entails?

Thanks very much
hcandersen
If you don't pay, then the authority pursue the penalty by serving a Notice to Owner on the registered keeper who then has to make formal reps or pay.

There is no alternative to the formal process if a NTO is served.

Of course there were no loading kerb marks, they're not required. Within a RPZ the council must dispense with waiting and loading markings.

No silver bullet here, I'm afraid except one point: given that a RPZ has such an effect, its end must be marked, and it isn't at this location. You should raise this point in reps
DancingDad
The only glimmer of something I see that may be a way forward is that where you parked must be at the very end of the restricted zone.
This is evidenced by the very clear DYLs once past the end of the street and that there is clear signs of old yellow lines that have been removed.
But no Zone End sign.
Given the clear yellow lines and seemingly unregulated section the possibility for confusion is there.
Add that the totally incorrect information within the rejection entices the motorist who knows there are no lines or markings to think "They are wrong, I was right to park there, I am waiting for the NTO..."

With a sympathetic adjudicator you can win on this but.... BUT.... if the money, time and hassle is something you don't want to risk, don't try it.
I would not have high hopes, just that something can be made of this that could possibly win.

Your money, your risk, we will support either way.
Plumbcrazy
Thanks Dancing Dad

Just spoke to the council - The person I spoke to straightaway spoke of the signage I missed and agreed that the letter I was sent was misleading, I even got an apology for it! Think i'll just pay the fine!!
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