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FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
htomi
Hi all,
Last month I was off sick for a couple day. While in the house I noticed the small package attached to the windscreen.
As you would have guessed it was a parking ticket issued for parking on a double yellow line.
I did some research and sent the standard response back to the council from this http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3164984#8.
The refusal took a few weeks and I received it last week. I believe they didn't read my appeal as I mentioned in there that the online form was limited to 3000 characters and I couldn't enter all my comments. I asked for additional way of commenting (something like a email/postal address) but that was not mentioned in the response.
Also the double yellow line is something strange: I live in a free parking at all time zone and the lines in question are about 1m long placed around the middle of our street.
It's placed between two property (not at an entry or exit of a house) and is about 5 metres away from the nearest dropped curb.
Everyone seemed to park there before and after (I know it's not an excuse) so I was just unlucky to be caught there.
I attached all the pictures and documents I have, the PCN envelop was binned by my other half.
Please let me know if you think I can challenge this and how, I would greatly appreciate it!
DancingDad
Attachments?

Use a free hosting site to hold them, then link the images back here.
peterguk
On what basis do you believe you could park on a double yellow? Simply that you had parked there on previous occassions without getting a ticket?
htomi
QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 27 Mar 2016 - 17:55) *
On what basis do you believe you could park on a double yellow? Simply that you had parked there on previous occassions without getting a ticket?

We moved here about 8 months ago and since then I saw the line "uncovered" less than 10 times. Looking at the street map there is an 'H' mark on the pavement which I haven't noticed it before.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.1940818,0...3312!8i6656
I never park on DYL but this is in the middle of the street with no rational explanation: people used/use it all the time (someone just parked up on it).
I haven't been back on the spot since then, I rather walk a few streets then getting another envelop.
DancingDad
The rationale is the H
That is the sign for a fire hydrant and the metal plate in the carriageway is the cover for the hydrant.
Very useful for the fire brigade to be able to access in need.
Back when I took my test this was one of the items of decoration that I was advised to avoid when parking.
AFAIK, no legislation to prevent parking adjacent to one but seems this council have stuffed in a DYL to try to keep it clear.
Won't bother the firemen BTW, they'll just bounce a vehicle clear if needed but may upset the people whose house is on fire when time is being lost because someone ignored the DYL.

The pertinent question is whether or not there is a traffic order in place to support the contravention.
Bang to rights on the signs (DYL) but irrelevant if no traffic order.
You need to get one sharpish to decide whether to pay the discount or take it further.
Chase parking section and highways dept.

There seems to be two orders from 2013 in the TPT library
http://tro.parking-adjudication.gov.uk/TRO...ridge/CB092.pdf
Seem very similar but neither include the plan referred to in the waiting restriction section (section 2)
That plan is what you need.
PASTMYBEST
They make the offer of the 14 day discount being available if paid within 14 day's of the service of the letter. But then do not post the letter for 3 day's
thus denying you the full time offered a Procedural impropriety
peterguk
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 27 Mar 2016 - 21:53) *
They make the offer of the 14 day discount being available if paid within 14 day's of the service of the letter. But then do not post the letter for 3 day's
thus denying you the full time offered a Procedural impropriety


Learning...

"Discount is available if paid within 14 days of service."

Service is presumed 2 business days following posting. (Interpretation Act).

So a day or 2 delay in posting doesn't affect the 14 day period, since the 14 days starts from day of service.

I presume council PCNs are treated differently in some way?
DancingDad
But how does one tell the date of posting?
Simple with a postmark but commonly by the date on the letter and the assumption that this is the date posted.
Almost certainly will be the date used by the council to calculate the period.

Which then gives rise to uncertainty and confusion of deadlines.
Which is not good in a process driven by deadlines.
peterguk
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 27 Mar 2016 - 22:24) *
But how does one tell the date of posting?
Simple with a postmark but commonly by the date on the letter and the assumption that this is the date posted.
Almost certainly will be the date used by the council to calculate the period.

Which then gives rise to uncertainty and confusion of deadlines.
Which is not good in a process driven by deadlines.


Got you.

So can the councils be put to proof of date of posting, like we can with the BiB in criminal cases?
DancingDad
QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 27 Mar 2016 - 22:29) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 27 Mar 2016 - 22:24) *
But how does one tell the date of posting?
Simple with a postmark but commonly by the date on the letter and the assumption that this is the date posted.
Almost certainly will be the date used by the council to calculate the period.

Which then gives rise to uncertainty and confusion of deadlines.
Which is not good in a process driven by deadlines.


Got you.

So can the councils be put to proof of date of posting, like we can with the BiB in criminal cases?

Usually only with proof positive such as a postmark a few days late.
But cases have been won on that.
Adjudicators will usually take the PCN history as correct along with whatever date the council puts in.

In parking, General Regs apply more then interpretation act BTW, though says virtually the same.
Regulation 3
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/34...gulation/3/made.
However, you will note that it specifically refers to Notices.
And rejections at informal stage is not a notice.
And re-offering discount is a discretionary not mandatory choice for councils.
Which really makes it a failing of common law duties to act fairly. Which is a PI but one that adjudicators may not regard as telling.

Always worth chucking in but I'd hate to rely on this one point.
peterguk
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 27 Mar 2016 - 22:38) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 27 Mar 2016 - 22:29) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 27 Mar 2016 - 22:24) *
But how does one tell the date of posting?
Simple with a postmark but commonly by the date on the letter and the assumption that this is the date posted.
Almost certainly will be the date used by the council to calculate the period.

Which then gives rise to uncertainty and confusion of deadlines.
Which is not good in a process driven by deadlines.


Got you.

So can the councils be put to proof of date of posting, like we can with the BiB in criminal cases?

Usually only with proof positive such as a postmark a few days late.
But cases have been won on that.
Adjudicators will usually take the PCN history as correct along with whatever date the council puts in.

In parking, General Regs apply more then interpretation act BTW, though says virtually the same.
Regulation 3
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/34...gulation/3/made.
However, you will note that it specifically refers to Notices.
And rejections at informal stage is not a notice.
And re-offering discount is a discretionary not mandatory choice for councils.
Which really makes it a failing of common law duties to act fairly. Which is a PI but one that adjudicators may not regard as telling.

Always worth chucking in but I'd hate to rely on this one point.



Thanks for taking the time to explain.
htomi
Thanks very much for all the information above.
The difference of producing and posting a letter can be explained by the weekend falling in between the dates. I suppose I can raise this but a simple check on the dates would reveal the weekend.

DancingDad,
just trying to get my head around this, my actions here are:
QUOTE
Chase parking section and highways dept.

I'll need to contact the council and asking them which exact TRO they refer to.
Contact Highway dep to find a TRO related to Cambridge which list the "Parking in a restricted street during prescribed hours: (Code 01)"
Then I'll wait until the Notice to Owner arrives and make a formal representation.
Is this correct?
Thanks

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