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Ponty
Hi all, I've been a long time lurker but now need some help if anybody can assist?!

Basically, I sold a vehicle to my friend back in August. Confused as to the new tax rules, I declared the vehicle as SORN the day that he bought it (I had been paying the tax monthly) and duly sent the logbook off to DVLA. He then proceeded to tax it using the new keeper slip. Several months later the car broke down, and he was unwilling to get it repaired, so it is now parked on private land waiting to be scrapped. He cancelled the direct debit payments for the road tax (he was also paying monthly tax), as he hadn't received his new copy of the logbook - he didn't make me aware of any of this.

Yesterday I got home from work to find a letter sent to me by DVLA, called SN1 - Outstanding Direct Debit for vehicle tax. They are demanding payment of the outstanding amount of tax as direct debits have been missed, and are asking for £110 within seven days, or they will void the tax period and "start enforcement action" against me. This all sounds a bit scary, so I rang them and it transpires that somehow I am still the registered keeper!! It would seem they haven't received the logbook, and they asked if I had received confirmation that I no longer owned the vehicle, which of course I haven't, but to be quite honest I just hadn't realised this hasn't been sent to me.

I told the chap on the phone at DVLA that I always photocopy important documents, and as such have a copy of the logbook for this vehicle - and he advised me to SORN it immediately, which I then did. I spoke to the new keeper last night who gave me his address again, and I have filled in the form on the back of the SN1 letter which states that I sold the vehicle back in August, but that I have also been able to SORN it now. I wrote a cover letter explaining pretty much what I am explaining here, and posted it First Class Signed For this afternoon, as the SN1 letter had been send to me second class and I only have two days of the seven left!

In addition to this, I called the DVLA this morning to let them know I had managed to SORN it using a photocopy of the logbook, and was told that I "shouldn't have done that" but that this now means that enforcement action will not be necessary - however I am so confused as to whether this is accurate information, as the vehicle is still showing as taxed, but my friend tells me he stopped paying the direct debits "ages ago"! The vehicle tax is roughly £180 for the year, and they are asking me for £110, so I am assuming that this figure is based on taxing the vehicle for the year, then deducting the payments that he made. Surely if he hasn't paid any road tax in let's say 2 months (difficult to define what "ages ago" means!) yet the vehicle still shows as taxed, this would mean that in effect the DVLA have been "covering" this period, and as it is now SORNed the figure owing would be 110 minus any future months, but I/he would still owe for the months he didn't pay, but it remained in a taxed state? Sorry if this post is confusing people but I am scared!

The lady at DVLA also told me about a service online where I can tell DVLA I have sold/transferred a vehicle, without having to send the logbook back. She suggested that as I have a copy of the logbook, I could use the number off it to use that service, and that it would immediately transfer into the new keeper's name, so I have done this, in addition to the SORN I placed on the vehicle last night. When the service asked me for the date of sale, I provided the original sale date from August.

I have also read horror stories online about people getting CCJs for not paying tax on vehicles they no longer own! I am really hoping that this isn't a likely outcome for me, bear in mind that at this present moment in time I have declared the vehicle as SORN, updated the DVLA via their website to tell them I no longer own the vehicle (which is the same as sending the logbook back) and have sent the SN1 form back with the new owner's details in and a cover letter explaining the situation. I have read on several forums that because the onus is on the seller to make sure that DVLA are informed that the vehicle has been sold, and I didn't receive the letter confirming this, that I may still be held liable for the outstanding payment, which by itself isn't the end of the world (I can cope with having to pay £110, if it avoids further action!) but I am now confused as to what happens next, even in these circumstances - as the vehicle is SORN would I potentially end up with a bill for the "missing months" of tax (which I calculate to be roughly £35), or the full £110, which I would then get back once the vehicle is SORN again (or the new keeper would end up getting it back as I have now transferred into his name online?) or would I be at risk of facing further penalties, such as the £80 fine I hear about, or even worse a CCJ??

Has anybody else had a similar experience? I am so sorry to have posted such a long question, but as the new tax rules are still relatively new and this situation involves them (due to monthly payment issues) I am unable to find anything on the forums that fits the bill for my circumstances.

I am even willing to pay (within reason) for advice and help if there is somebody out there who knows the system better than I do, and is willing to help me and give me advice!

Thanks,

Gareth
The Rookie
You won't get a CCJ as its a criminal and not a civil matter.

they could take you to court over it.

From what you have said they never got the change of keeper notification from you.
Logician
You say you declared the vehicle SORN before you sold it for some strange reason, did you receive any acknowledgement of that? Then you sent off the log book to DVLA when you sold the vehicle to your friend, but did you fill in his details as the new keeper first and does the copy you have show that? Did you receive an acknowledgement from DVLA that you were no longer the registered keeper? If you did not, did you query that?

It seems that you have remained as the registered keeper despite whatever you and your friend did between you. Unless you have anything that proves that this is the fault of DVLA, the missing road tax sounds like your liability and you may have to pay that and see if you can get your friend to refund you or contribute, but as the car is now scrap and you have his money he may not be too keen to pay up! You say you are willing to pay for advice, but paying the DVLA sounds a cheaper option.
Ponty
Thanks for the replies, yes I did declare it SORN on the day I sold it - as I was not familiar with the new tax rules and as such thought that was the best thing to do to "remove myself" from taxing the vehicle. I will have an e-mail acknowledgment of that yes, and no I haven't received an acknowledgement from DVLA that I am no long the registered keeper, and I didn't query it as to be honest I just hadn't realised that it hadn't arrived (I know they take a couple of weeks).

I am certainly the registered keeper as far as the DVLA are concerned - at least I was until earlier on today when I updated their records by using their website (www.gov.uk/sold-bought-car). I imagine it will be my liability, like I said I would imagine the worst case scenario will be one of us has to pay the full year's worth of tax, but will then be able to get that partially refunded once SORNing the vehicle (again!). I haven't ripped him off, he bought the car for scrap value as it was, and drove it into the ground, it was a temporary car for him and now it's given up the ghost (something he knew was likely when he bought it) so I feel it's fair he contributes or pays, but will obviously have to arrange that between ourselves.

My main concern is that I'm left wondering if I am going to receive fines now on top of this, or even a CCJ as I have seen other scare stories online where this has happened to people, albeit does seem to be people who the DVLA have written to but have moved on, so hopefully would be able to pay up if I have to, long before it gets that far!

Thanks,

Gareth
The Rookie
As he clearly didn't pay tax while running it, only fair he pays the value he should have paid to you and you can pay DVLA.

Your SORN declaration as you sold it was false, fortunately it's unlikely you will get into trouble for that as well.
Ponty
Thanks Rookie, I now know that SORNing it when selling it was wrong, I just thought that the new system wanted me to SORN it and then the new keeper would tax it with the new keeper slip - I was just confused by the new rules. I suppose I did stop using it on the road from the second the SORN was issued though, and he did tax it himself, just failed to keep up with the Direct Debit payments, and as it seems to be in my name I have now got the hassle from it. I think they allow you two chances to miss a DD payment and then your right to use the monthly service is revoked and you have to pay in full (which is the letter I have got). Hopefully because I have now updated the DVLA with the new owner details and written to them explaining everything they will be able to see this and I may be OK. As I said I was just really scared of the potential impact on my credit rating that a CCJ would have, which I hear they issue to people who don't pay their road tax arrghh!

Thanks again,

Gareth
The Rookie
How did he tax a car, had you given him all the details he needed to tax it off the V5C including the reference numbers? Secondly the only reason a DD payment isnt made is if the account has insufficient funds, you can't 'not keep up the DD payments'......how sure are you he's telling the truth?

YOU CAN'T GET A CCJ for not paying the VED.....wherever you heard that was wrong, you can get jailed for it though! (if you are ordered to pay by the court and still don't pay).
Ponty
He taxed it using the new keeper V5C/2 slip (the green slip you keep when buying a car), there is a doc ref number on there he used to tax it. Once he had finished using the car, he decided he didn't want to tax it any more, but rather than declaring a SORN, he just deleted the direct debit agreement from his bank, and he didn't tell me any of this, that's what I meant by failing to keep up with the DDs.

Thanks for that, I read on "findlaw.co.uk" the following, which is what frightened me:


"What will happen if you don’t make a SORN

If you dont make a SORN or tax your vehicle you could be stopped by the police.

Youll get an automatic penalty of 80, as well as paying for a new tax disc.

You could also get a County Court Judgment against you, and be fined a minimum of 1,000."

Obviously the CCJ part scared me! Although technically the vehicle is SORN now, and I haven't yet been issued an £80 fine, just the request for the tax to be paid in full within 7 days due to missed DD payments.

Thanks,

Gareth
The Rookie
The advice from that site is wrong, a criminal conviction from the magistrates court is not called a CCJ.
Ponty
It's so confusing, I followed their advice and used my photocopied V5 to declare a SORN for this month, and to change the owner online, which as far as I am aware will mean there is only one month's tax owing (I worked out that the new keeper had paid tax up to and including January this year, so Feb is in arrears and I SORNed it during March), sent the SN1 letter back with new keeper details and a letter explaining on, then called in to confirm they got it - and the person on the phone this time said I shouldn't have updated the record online, nor should I have SORNed it, "a letter with the SN1 would have sufficed"! I just want to get the situation resolved, if there is outstanding vehicle tax of £15.75 for the month of February then I will happily pay that, the vehicle is now declared SORN and DVLA updated regarding current keeper, who will SORN it himself when he receives new logbook, surely that's job done?! Although I do think they will use it as an excuse to send myself/new keeper an £80 fine but I suppose we will just have to wait and see what happens next.

Thanks,

Gareth
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