Hello everyone, I seem to have found myself calling upon your services twice in a fortnight... :/ but hoping someone can help advise me again.

I received a PCN this morning from Enfield Council for the following contravention: 50R- performing a prohibited turn, no right turn - in an area which has cropped up a few times on the forum here.

Although I've lived in the area for 5 years, it's the first time I've ever performed this right turn as I usually walk, and to be honest have never noticed the no right turn sign - which is a bit before the road in question and not beside or opposite it (you can just about see it in the pic they sent me off in the far left on the island). Anyway, I don't deny doing it - it was an honest mistake - and they sent me a video caught on CCTV of the contravention. I revisited the location this morning to see where all the signs were and there is camera mounted high on a lamp post as you enter the road.

However, I'm wondering if the PCN has been issued invalidly because it says the alleged contravention was "noted by a civil enforcement officer". I've read around the legislation bit, but am I right in thinking that CEOs are parking attendants and therefore must be physical people wearing a uniform who can only issue PCNs to stationary vehicles and not for moving traffic offences? And do CCTV cameras used for these purposes have to comply to any specific rules about the type of camera used ie. approved make/model? The video itself is otherwise compliant with rules regarding showing the correct time/date etc.

I attach both sides of the PCN below - I've redacted everything that could identify me including dates, but for reference it's dated 13 days after the offence. One other issue which I presume will add a slight complication is after receiving the PCN this morning, I realised I made the exact same turn last night - still blissfully unaware I was doing anything wrong...! I guess I'll be receiving another PCN shortly, but is it worth trying to head it off in the appeal for this notice in the hope they'll cancel it, or is that just wishful thinking?

Looking at the tribunals register there only seems to be one successful appeal for this junction which was based on the council not addressing the appellant's issues in its rejection notice (Case ref: 215038311A) rather than the validity of the PCN - all the others were trying to cite mitigating circumstances.

Thanks for any and all advice you can give.

Signage, as you say, is clear.
Nothing wrong with PCN on a skim through.

Thanks of your response.
On point 1 - is it not, effectively, a lie to say it was noted by a CEO when it wasn't? It was noted by a fixed traffic camera. Should this not have been stated instead?
On point 2 - I thought traffic enforcement cameras also had to be approved devices and ensured to be calibrated etc for speeding offences etc - is this not the case anymore?

Ok, you're right.
The camera took a break, climbed down the pole, quick cuppa and biccy and sat down to write your VRM in the naughty book.

Sorry, couldn't help myself but point is, forget pedantics that are of no use to you.


This isn't speeding.
Those for parking, as I explained, have to be approved devices. Hence, a parking PCN would say 'a record produced by an approved device'
-- but it still has to be a CEO who notes you in the naughty book.

For moving traffic, basically, cameras just have to serve purpose, i.e. work.

I think you need to worry more about that 2nd possible PCN.

Others will chip in I'm sure.

I was hoping the pedantry might fit a loophole or expose some other flaw, which is what we're all about right?

For the second PCN, what would you advise to help head it off in the first instance?

Not easy but has been done in the past.

Likely starting point would be to deal with both together and claim
a disproportionate penalty in the circumstances.

Problems are that we don't currently know if you've got a second
or how much time you have on the first, you've obscured the date.

I posted here yesterday the day after the date on the notice so I've got a bit of time. As it was dated 13 days after the contravention, I'm assuming I won't receive the second one until after a similar time frame. I don't doubt I will receive it as it seems Enfield council are on to a winning cash making scheme here.

I'm just wondering if it would be better for me to email an appeal as soon as possible for this one and state I'm now aware I performed the same turn early in some vague hope they'll be lenient and cancel the second one, rather than wait for the second to turn up. Or is that the best strategy?

Thanks again for your advice - I appreciate it.

I honestly can't say that I know the answer.
You may be right but see if anyone else has any input over maybe next couple of days.

They are if people don't obey the No Right Turn signs ! Now, of course if the signs are missing or obscured, or in some way easy to miss, then you can appeal on that, but trying to get into a technical appeal here means you would have to stand your ground and take them to London Tribunals for the full PCN amount. Are you up for that ? In the early years of PCNs, it was almost like shooting rats in a barrel appealing errors in PCNs but councils have upped their game hugely now, so such things are very difficult to find. Not only that, since a court case allowed "substantial compliance" even an error is not necessarily fatal to the PCN.

I meant a cash making scheme in terms of fining people for very minor moving traffic violations - it's not as if I was running a red light, or was endangering life by making this right turn... I can't really see a reason why one shouldn't be able to turn right here, but as I said it was an honest mistake as I didn't spot the sign a bit before the junction.

At the time I was in a line of traffic heading to a roundabout and had intended to go round it as I was dropping something off at a charity shop just beside it, but then I thought it would be easier to stop in the side road so turned down it. Unfortunately when I made the decision the sign was already behind me on the island - it was slow moving traffic so quite a few seconds had passed for it to not be immediately in my mind - and there isn't another sign by the actual road, so I missed the instruction.

As it was the first time I had made this turn and hasn't observed the instruction the first time, this then led me to make the same error again assuming it was ok.

I'm happy to take it to tribunal if necessary on a technical appeal. I took a case to tribunal a few years ago and won, but it was based on Harrow's famed Camrose Avenue. I guess I'm happy to pay the first fine as it was a genuine mistake, but would like to appeal for leniency on the expected second. If they ignore the points raised in that appeal, then I would have a good case at tribunal on the basis they failed to address the issues in the appeal would I not?

Still grateful for any advice you can offer. Thanks.

OP I think you are bang to rights if we consider this signage:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6329027,-...3312!8i6656

However that's not what the photo shows --a car turning into Chase Road!!!

I would doubt that the CCTV camera can see the signage or indeed include footage for evidence purposes.

Perhaps others might comment on the extent of any wriggle room here.

Mick