Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Parked on double yellows that weren't there
FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
ColinM50
Parked on a double yellow at 06:00 this morning in an industrial area of Milton Keynes I'd never been to before - left my car there while I delivered another car to London.

It was raining and of course dark at 06:00 and the company I'd visited told me to park in the road out front and not their carpark 'cos their gates close at 17:00 and we weren't sure when I'd be back. So drove out of their car park and there were a few cars parked to the right and I drove out of the entrance and pulled up on the left. when I came back this afternoon I had a PCN. I'd seen the yellow when I parked but thought they didn't start for another few yards so parked what I thought was before them. Tbh I thought I'd parked before the double yellow started but it turns out there's a big section of double yellows missing. See pics below. In daylight I could see the line actually starts under my car so I guess I was ten feet on it, if it counts since half the line is missing
Click to view attachment

Another pic

Click to view attachment

So does anybody have any ideas as to what I can do? Somebody told me in the pub that the yellow lines have to be consistent and properly painted. Anyone know what I can quote to MK council to see if they'll cancel this?

Thanks for any ideas or pointers.
ColinM50
Just had a look on Google maps and the yellow lines were in a similar condition last June, though there's even more of the yellow missing now

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.0226318,-...33;8i6656?hl=en
hcandersen
Whose photos have you posted? We need to see the authority's.

Are you the registered keeper of the car?

Pl post the PCN, both sides with only personal data erased.

Be in no doubt, at present your optimum outcome is likely to be to submit a 'terribly sorry etc' challenge and pay the discount if rejected.

Incandescent
Whilst badly maintained, they are clear, and your car is over some very clear DYLs so as per HCA, your only hope is a humble appeal. Certainly I can't see a win at adjudication. If they reject you, best pay the discount.
ColinM50
I posted on Sunday re my inadvertent parking on a D/Y where a lot of the paint was missing.
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=103946
General advice from here was you didn't think I had a leg to stand on (I still disagree) but to send them a humble apology and maybe they'd rescind it.

On Sunday I sent them a fairly long diatribe explaining the reasons for parking there and also querying the legality of the non existent paint on the D/Ys'.

Had a reply back on Monday from Indigo, Milton Keynes parking contractor dismissing my request for cancellation saying they thought the D/Y's were correct. So I phoned them to request a copy of the regulations on D/Y's. They put me back to MK council and I explained the situation to them. At first they said "no, the lines are clear". I then spoke further up the food chain to a very nice understanding lady who looked at the pics and initially she said they couldn't do anything. I persisted (politely and calmly) in requesting the law or regulations surround the paint on D/Y's and I asked to speak even further up the food chain. She went away and had a word with "the big boss" and came back and agreed that in this instance they'd cancel the PCN. And confirmed it in an email later yesterday.

So a result. Thanks for the advice. Well done.

In reality I still think the line is illegal and the missing paint constitutes an "offence" and maybe the council agreed hence their cancelling the PCN?
DancingDad
Personally I think you got lucky.
Or should be selling for a living as persuading any council on the phone is extremely difficult.
But well done.

The lines are worn but since an infamous High Court ruling a few years back, the phrase these days is substantial compliance. IE, they are recognisable therefore exist. Often a mis-used phrase but nonetheless, we have to be aware of it.
And in this case, judging by the photos, I cannot see an adjudicator accepting that they were unclear to the point of being unenforceable.
hcandersen
We're here to give advice in line with the vast number of cases we've seen and in this case the Court of Appeal has determined that lines to not have to be in pristine condition, but they must convey the restriction unambiguously.

Yours did.

We also see examples where authorities, or to be strictly correct, individual officers, sometimes worn down by the burden of their jobs - poor souls - exercise discretion.

Where a challenge can be submitted without prejudice to the discount then one should always be made, and yours is a case in point.

Local government like God moves in mysterious ways its wonders to perform.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.