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Christian_d
Helping out a very good friends Grandson on this one.

I'm guessing it's an appeal to the parking co first to get the code for the appeal so does anyone suggest soft or hard appeal with the good folk of Combined Parking Solutions?

As soon as I get a bit of feedback, I'll write an appeal up for critique. I also do asearch for these on the forum too.

Any help in the meantime would be appreciated, thanks





I think this must be where he parked.
https://goo.gl/maps/162tRAmEM3r
Jlc
There is no option to appeal... (many IPC members do not allow keeper appeals)

Any clues to the circumstances? CPS do issue claims and are hard to beat.
Christian_d
QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 2 Jan 2016 - 00:19) *
There is no option to appeal... (many IPC members do not allow keeper appeals)

Any clues to the circumstances? CPS do issue claims and are hard to beat.


I think his grandson was at Old Trafford watching the mighty "Louis Van Gaals Army"

I'm not sure as to the other circumstances at all.
Christian_d
One thing he did say is that there was no ticket on the screen of the car at the time.
emanresu
Google Street View for the location and then check the Land Registry for ownership. CPS do not have boots on the ground but rely on freelancers - who may or may not have ownership/authority for the site. The signs may or may not be there as he does not check. He only asks his freelancers to sign to say they are there/
Christian_d
Cheers Emanresu,

I have posted a street view link to where he was parked (I've made the assumption from the letter he's had with the location on). I'll know more tomorrow as I've sent him back there to get me pictures of both the signs and the exact location that he was parked in.

I can get the Land Reg docs for £3.00 but how might this help?. I'm guessing GPOL is a no go area now so ownership of land is the way to go.

Shall I buy this now as it needs to form part of the appeal or would it just be required for court if it gets that far?

I'm not too sure he'll stick it out all the way. I would without doubt but I've told him I'd help with his appeals and the we'll take it from there.

He's been told by his gramps not to contact them until I get back to him.
Christian_d
QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 2 Jan 2016 - 00:19) *
There is no option to appeal... (many IPC members do not allow keeper appeals)

.....


There is an option to appeal on the letter. I guess you meant "no point in appealing"
Jlc
QUOTE (Christian_d @ Sat, 2 Jan 2016 - 20:11) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 2 Jan 2016 - 00:19) *
There is no option to appeal... (many IPC members do not allow keeper appeals)

.....


There is an option to appeal on the letter. I guess you meant "no point in appealing"

Read it carefully...

...unless you have exceptional circumstances?
emanresu
QUOTE
I can get the Land Reg docs for £3.00 but how might this help?


There has to be a contractual chain of possessory rights. Your grandson needs to know who the people are in the chain.

CPS will claim they were given/purchases rights from the tenant/leaseholder who themselves may have purchased some rights from a landowner/head leaseholder - so a chain of people all with different rights which they either keep or sell on.

It may the signature on the CPS contract that allowed them to be there to issue tickets may be a complete stranger to the chain. You'll challenge CPS to prove they have rights but you need to have an idea of the answer before you do.

The IAS who your Grandson can no longer appeal to will assume their member has such rights - unless it is proven beyond all reasonable doubt (criminal standard). Small Claims courts decide on the balance of probabilities (civil standard) so if you do you homework now, you will be in a better position to help your Grandson.
Christian_d
I completely misread it. I thought his grandson had a chance to appeal but now I know that this isn't possible. Surely not putting a ticket on the screen to give him a chance to appeal but writing to him instead after the appeal time has lapsed/out of time is out of order.

I'm not sure what the next steps are for him. So do I formulate a letter to them asking them to prove that they have a right to ticket from the Landlord? Do I write to get them to offer the discount as they didn't ticket and then tel him to pay the £60?

Or do we write to them, tell them to Foxtrot Oscar as they didn't ticket and tell them to take us to court where they will be put to truth that they did indeed ticket and that the also have permission from the landlord?
nosferatu1001
There is no keeper liability, presumably, so that is one point.

You write as keeper, dismiss the charge a being nothing to do with the keeper, they must cancel or talk to the driver. For you the matter is closed.
Christian_d
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Sun, 3 Jan 2016 - 16:57) *
There is no keeper liability, presumably, so that is one point.

You write as keeper, dismiss the charge a being nothing to do with the keeper, they must cancel or talk to the driver. For you the matter is closed.


but they are claiming keeper liability as they have quoted POFA
ostell
They may mention it but do they comply with the requirements to hold the keeper liable? I notice that they do not mention the period of parking, which is a required condition, there may be more.
nosferatu1001
Go visit the parking Cowboys website, there is a list of requirements that must ALL be met in order to claim keeper liability.

It must arrive within 14 days if no ticket. 29-56 of there was a ticket. Period of parking, the parking charge payable etc all must be exactly correctly listed

The requirements are simple , and the parking companies claim they follow them. None does exactly.

In case it isn't clear: PPC lie, act dishonestly and use misleading business practices ALL THE TIME. it's their ENTIRE BUSINESS MODEL. Don't just blindly believe them!
Christian_d
Here are the signs at the site. I don't know whether or not it would make a difference that they still say BPA Member?

Interestingly, it's says £100 per 24 hour period, that seems good as he was only parked there for a couple of hours ohmy.gif




Also have total photos of the whole site. Just in case they stick some new signs up.
nosferatu1001
There can be a a refuse to that you require acces to popla. Signs set out any purported contract, and they cannot change this without breaking the contract after the fact.

Expect them not to care, or for the IAS to give a toss either

Go through the keeper liability requirements. This is one way to kill it dead should they try court.
Christian_d
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 4 Jan 2016 - 18:28) *
There can be a a refuse to that you require acces to popla. Signs set out any purported contract, and they cannot change this without breaking the contract after the fact.

Expect them not to care, or for the IAS to give a toss either

Go through the keeper liability requirements. This is one way to kill it dead should they try court.


When you say "this one will kill it dead" do you mean the keeper liability requirement or the fact that they are not a member of the BPA anymore and therefore can't offer POPLA as an appeal option?

I've had a look at the Keeper Liability topic on Parking Cowboys and I can only find one point about the period of parking (which I've mentioned in the letter for critique below).
Christian_d
Dear Sir,

I am writing as registered keep of vehicle registration **** *** which was parked at Unit 1 Sovereign Enterprise Park, Salford, Manchester on 7/11/15.

I am informing you that I have no obligation to identify the driver as your notice to keeper has failed to provide the correct information under the The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

You have failed to notify the specific period for parking.
You have incorrectly stated the parking charge which you claim is due.

At 3.20 PM your signs would have been difficult to read. I have attended the site to photograph the signs and I can confirm that my vehicle was not parked for "a 24 hour period" so no charge would be due in any case. If you care to read the wording of your signs, you state that the cost to park is "£100 per vehicle per 24 hour period".

I also notice that you claim to be a member of the British Parking Association (BPA) and this claim is utterly false. I have checked their members list and your company is not listed. If you are claiming to be a member of the BPA then you should have offered an opportunity to appeal at The Parking on Private Lands Appeals Service (POPLA) and you have failed to do so.

I also believe that you are unlikely to be able to prove that you have sufficient interest in this land to give you the correct authority to issue tickets.

In light of the above, I consider the matter closed. Do not contact me again. If you choose to pursue this through the Small Claims Court any further correspondence will be regarded as harrassment and is likely to form the basis of a counter claim.

Love and Kisses
Christian_d
I've also checked the Land Reg and that exact location is listed as both Freehold and Leasehold which seems strange to me. The title deeds are £3.00. Shall I get him buy both and post up here?
nosferatu1001
Keeper liability kills it dead, should it get to court

Did they give the parking charge payable? That's how much tariff is left

What you need to state is that their signage states they are a member of the bpa aos. As their contention is that a contract was formed , one of the terms of the contact would be an appeal through popla. If they cannot provide this the. They break the terms of their own contract

You are NEVER required to name the driver. You just state you will not name the driver, and they have failed to hold the keeper liable therefore you consider the matter closed.
Christian_d
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 4 Jan 2016 - 23:43) *
Did they give the parking charge payable? That's how much tariff is left


I'm not too sure what your question is. Their NTO states £100.00 if that's what you mean?

It's just that I'm advising a very young keeper. The last thing I wanted to do was to tell him not to pay/offer anything if it wasn't the right thing to do.

I'll tell him if I was in his position I'd send that letter with your amendments but I'll leave the ultimate decision to him.

Can just that one point on not mentioning the parking period be enough not to meet keeper liability?

Thanks for all your help.
ostell
Miss one required point and that's it: No keeper liability.

If there was no window ticket then they have failed to deliver it within 14 days.

Check the requirements yourself using the POFA regs paragraphs 8 or 9 depending on whether there was a windscreen notice or not.
nosferatu1001
Or if the legislation is tricky, use parking Cowboys website - keeper liability.

The requirements are strict. Miss one and there is no keeper liability.
emanresu
Have your PM. Will come back later.
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