Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Does Christmas period count in 14 days?
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
BevBev
Hi.

I am almost sure I was flashed by a speedkerb camera in 30 zone for going close to 40.

This happened on Saturday 12 December.

14 days from day after contravention would be Saturday 26 Dec.

I have dreaded the post for past week and half but thankfully no NIP. Due to Christmas there wont be post anymore till Tuesday the 29th which is after the 14 days.

Am I off the hook?

I bought the car on 25/11/15. I dont remember exactly when I got the new V5C but was def a good few days before the flash. Previous owner also hasn't received NIP.

Thanks all.
andy_foster
14 days means just that. It does not matter how many of those days are bank holidays, whether there are any postal strikes, or whether it is a full moon.
peterguk
QUOTE (BevBev @ Thu, 24 Dec 2015 - 18:43) *
I bought the car on 25/11/15.


What's the DOCREF DATE on the V5?
BevBev
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Thu, 24 Dec 2015 - 18:45) *
14 days means just that. It does not matter how many of those days are bank holidays, whether there are any postal strikes, or whether it is a full moon.


Thanks.

IF it comes on Tuesday or any day after that is there anything I can do to prove it came after 14 days.



QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 24 Dec 2015 - 18:48) *
QUOTE (BevBev @ Thu, 24 Dec 2015 - 18:43) *
I bought the car on 25/11/15.


What's the DOCREF DATE on the V5?



07/12/15
peterguk
QUOTE (BevBev @ Thu, 24 Dec 2015 - 18:53) *
IF it comes on Tuesday or any day after that is there anything I can do to prove it came after 14 days.


Get the postman to witness delivery?
BevBev
QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 24 Dec 2015 - 19:02) *
QUOTE (BevBev @ Thu, 24 Dec 2015 - 18:53) *
IF it comes on Tuesday or any day after that is there anything I can do to prove it came after 14 days.


Get the postman to witness delivery?


Thanks Peter will try do that. We got a nice postman. I will explain situation and ask him to look out for NIP.

Any telltale signs on the envelope?


Is the V5 doc ref date ok?



On technical level would he need to give witness in person (highly unlikely he would agree) or could he just put what he saw in writing?
peterguk
V5 date is OK.

Postman would have to appear in court if a witness. If it happens, don't expect an easy ride in court. I had my postman as a witness and lost my case in Mags and Crown Courts before winning in the HC.

Click the link in my sig. for more info.
BevBev
QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 24 Dec 2015 - 19:15) *
V5 date is OK.

Postman would have to appear in court if a witness. If it happens, don't expect an easy ride in court. I had my postman as a witness and lost my case in Mags and Crown Courts before winning in the HC.

Click the link in my sig. for more info.


So easy win is only if date on NIP is late?

How did you get your postman to come to court?
Did you get reimbursed for time and costs?
Now that you won does that make all subsequent cases easier?
peterguk
QUOTE (BevBev @ Thu, 24 Dec 2015 - 19:25) *
So easy win is only if date on NIP is late?


Correct.

QUOTE (BevBev @ Thu, 24 Dec 2015 - 19:25) *
How did you get your postman to come to court?


Asked him.

QUOTE (BevBev @ Thu, 24 Dec 2015 - 19:25) *
Did you get reimbursed for time and costs?


I recovered the majority (about £14K), but rules for costs have changed since my case.

QUOTE (BevBev @ Thu, 24 Dec 2015 - 19:25) *
Now that you won does that make all subsequent cases easier?


Yes, because pre-my HC win the authorities interpreted the law as "as long as it's posted within 14 days, that's good enough".

The HC decided the law should be interpreted as "must be delivered within 14 days", which is binding on all lower courts.
BevBev
QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 24 Dec 2015 - 20:02) *
QUOTE (BevBev @ Thu, 24 Dec 2015 - 19:25) *
How did you get your postman to come to court?


Asked him.

QUOTE (BevBev @ Thu, 24 Dec 2015 - 19:25) *
Did you get reimbursed for time and costs?


I recovered the majority (about £14K), but rules for costs have changed since my case.



Postman came just like that or was he paid expenses?

14k??!! Was it no win no fee?
peterguk
QUOTE (BevBev @ Thu, 24 Dec 2015 - 20:50) *
Postman came just like that or was he paid expenses?


I reimbursed him for his time off. He had no other expenses.

QUOTE (BevBev @ Thu, 24 Dec 2015 - 20:50) *
14k??!! Was it no win no fee?


No. I put up the £14K it cost to appeal to the HC. Several members here were heavily involved, and another member (retired) took on the case.
BevBev
So is it correct that, presuming it arrives and is dated within 14 days, I am in same situation as if it would've arrived within 14 days unless I am prepared to put serious money down and go to court?
peterguk
QUOTE (BevBev @ Fri, 25 Dec 2015 - 12:32) *
So is it correct that, presuming it arrives and is dated within 14 days, I am in same situation as if it would've arrived within 14 days unless I am prepared to put serious money down and go to court?


You would need to attend and convince the court that delivery was outside of 14 days. That, in itself costs nothing.

Your problem is proving it. If it was easy, everyone would simply say it arrived late.
BevBev
QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 25 Dec 2015 - 12:43) *
QUOTE (BevBev @ Fri, 25 Dec 2015 - 12:32) *
So is it correct that, presuming it arrives and is dated within 14 days, I am in same situation as if it would've arrived within 14 days unless I am prepared to put serious money down and go to court?


You would need to attend and convince the court that delivery was outside of 14 days. That, in itself costs nothing.

Your problem is proving it. If it was easy, everyone would simply say it arrived late.


I understand, thanks.

If one down this route does this also make them lose the option of speed awareness course?
peterguk
QUOTE (BevBev @ Fri, 25 Dec 2015 - 13:10) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 25 Dec 2015 - 12:43) *
QUOTE (BevBev @ Fri, 25 Dec 2015 - 12:32) *
So is it correct that, presuming it arrives and is dated within 14 days, I am in same situation as if it would've arrived within 14 days unless I am prepared to put serious money down and go to court?


You would need to attend and convince the court that delivery was outside of 14 days. That, in itself costs nothing.

Your problem is proving it. If it was easy, everyone would simply say it arrived late.


I understand, thanks.

If one down this route does this also make them lose the option of speed awareness course?


Once you choose to go to court, any SAC or CoFP that may have been offered is long gone.
henrik777
QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 24 Dec 2015 - 19:15) *
V5 date is OK.

Postman would have to appear in court if a witness. If it happens, don't expect an easy ride in court. I had my postman as a witness and lost my case in Mags and Crown Courts before winning in the HC.

Click the link in my sig. for more info.



As i read the bailii record of the case, you lost because the law was misinterpreted not because they didn't accept the evidence of late delivery. As the law is now clear and binding then it's only the evidence that's at stake. A much easier and cheaper case to run.
The Rookie
Not quite, AIUI at the magistrates court level they decided he had got it in time (didn't believe the evidence), at the first appeal they believed the evidence and got the law wrong, at the HC case they rule on pints of law so overturned the error, but had the appeal court decided (like the magistrates) that he did get the NIP in time contrary to the evidence presented then Peter would have lost.
peterguk
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 25 Dec 2015 - 15:17) *
Not quite, AIUI at the magistrates court level they decided he had got it in time (didn't believe the evidence), at the first appeal they believed the evidence and got the law wrong, at the HC case they rule on pints of law so overturned the error, but had the appeal court decided (like the magistrates) that he did get the NIP in time contrary to the evidence presented then Peter would have lost.


ISTBC, but the HC could not decide the NIP was received on time. That fact had been accepted in the CC and the appeal to the HC was not contested.
southpaw82
The High Court is unlikely to be making any new findings of fact on an appeal.
henrik777
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.a...pdate&mid=0

QUOTE
Said that whilst he accepted the evidence given by the postman, that since i had admitted my guilt via the S172, and that i appeared to have manipulated the law to my advantage, he was finding me GUILTY.


This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.