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Jakeisonifre
Hi there,

I have been recommended this forum by a friend and was hoping somebody could help me out.

Yesterday morning, I was returning home after a gig to unload my band's equipment back into my flat. The whole process took around 20 minutes as we live on a top floor and don't trust our lift.
Once we had all the gear up I returned to move my van and saw the below PCN.

This offence did take place within Liverpool City Centre's outer controlled parking zone, however I was under the impression that unloading was allowed on yellow lines where no yellow pips can be seen.

Would I stand any chance of winning an appeal in this instance or would I better off just paying as soon as to avoid the higher fine ?

The offence allegedly took place on Riding Street in Liverpool, Picture can be seen here.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place//@53.40...ihkMHvg!2e0

Any help anybody can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment
PASTMYBEST
Challenge them stating that you were unloading, they will no doubt want some form of proof can you give them any. A neighbours statement may suffice
hcandersen
Hardly surprising that a PCN was served given that the CEO states that they observed your vehicle for 6 minutes - plus implicitly the time taken to put the data into their HHC, print the PCN, put in an envelope and attach to your vehicle - without seeing any activity.

When you claim the exemption of unloading which, subject to meeting certain conditions, according to your account you are entitled to do you must address the issue of time. Don't fudge it.

You say the 'whole process took around 20 minutes' which implies that in order to fit with the CEO's evidence you would have made 2 trips each taking approx. 10 minutes. Be in no doubt that if they want to play hardball you would have to account for the period of, I estimate, 8 minutes during which no activity was seen at your vehicle.

Sweating and panting after trip no. 1 and revitalising yourself with a drink doesn't count. However, if you'd been up all night why would you dilly dally?
Incandescent
Clearly you weren't unloading cement or bricks, but valuable band equipment, so you can hardly unload it all onto the pavement, them move the car somewhere. Also if it is bulky, you would have to make several trips, (you don't say how many), and again, would need to lock the car with the remaining equipment in it until you return. Yet this is all loading activity but to prove it, as you must if you claim an exemption, you really need some collateral as PMB in #2 suggests. However, obviously there is no delivery receipt or anything you can use, so it could come down to your word against the CEO's and these sorts of cases tend to end up at adjudication. So you would have to risk the full PCN amount.

However, as it is a Reg. 9 PCN, you have two bites of the appeal cherry. You can submit an informal challenge to the PCN as the driver, then if this is rejected, wait for the Notice to Owner, and appeal again, then if rejected again, you can go to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. Once you get to the NtO stage the discount is lost.

I would suggest you take a photo of your equipment, and put this in with your appeal, plus any publicity about the gig that you played at. This reinforces your appeal statement. If they refuse you, I would think you would win at adjudication, but these things are never certain, I'm afraid. Also be aware that many councils contract-out enforcement activities including, (unlawfully IMHO) responses to informal appeals, but look much more closely at formal appeals as if the appellant takes them to adjudication and wins, it costs them real money.

hcandersen
The CEO is not alleging that unloading was not taking place, they are stating that by virtue of the vehicle being unattended for > 6 minutes they had reasonable grounds to believe that the contravention occurred.

Therefore you must address the time issue, if you don't then this could be a problem.

Why was the unattended for over 6 minutes with no loading activity being seen?

Perhaps your estimate of 20 minutes was a guesstimate, only you know, we don't.

But the objective fact is nothing was happening at the vehicle and it is your burden to establish that while you were away from the vehicle you were wholly engaged in the activity of unloading.
Incandescent
Agree.

What you haven't told us is what you mean by "the top floor" flat. If it takes some time to hump stuff to a lift, call the lift, ascend, then unload lift, get to flat, unlock door, hump stuff inside then go back to the car, then an absence of six minutes is explainable, and really needs to go into your appeal.
I think you can win this one, but you need to prepare your case in detail so as to refute their six minutes of no loading activity
DancingDad
As others have said, detail what you were doing.
Number of flights of stairs, type of kit, photos of kit.
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