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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
silverfish
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - November 2015
Date of the NIP: - 12 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 15 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M4 Port Talbot W/B (Average speed detection zone)
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Happened in the evening. I was keeping up with the flow of traffic in the outside lane so I guess a few more people may have received an NIP.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - Unsure
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Wales

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 20:30:26 +0000
glasgow_bhoy
Car registered to you, no recent changes to regi no, ownership, address etc? Then it would appear late. Proving it arrived late is the big hurdle. Having been sent on the 12th day it should have got to you on day 14.
silverfish
QUOTE (glasgow_bhoy @ Mon, 30 Nov 2015 - 20:35) *
Car registered to you, no recent changes to regi no, ownership, address etc? Then it would appear late. Proving it arrived late is the big hurdle. Having been sent on the 12th day it should have got to you on day 14.


Thanks. I was doing 57mph in a 50 zone so if there is a good likelihood that I'll get offered a speed awareness course I'll probably just hold my hands up if it's going to be hard to prove the NIP arrived late.


QUOTE (glasgow_bhoy @ Mon, 30 Nov 2015 - 20:35) *
Having been sent on the 12th day


The date on the NIP is the 25th but I' don't know if that's the day they put it in the post.
Jlc
If it dropped through your letterbox on Saturday 28th then it does appear late. Trouble is it will be presumed delivered on Friday 27th and just within time! (This is all assuming this is the 1st NIP)

It is presumed delivered and you would have to rebut that presumption at court - difficult and would require attendance at court.

Regardless of any 'late' NIP the s172 (name the driver) request is still valid and must be responded to.
silverfish
QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 30 Nov 2015 - 20:53) *
If it dropped through your letterbox on Saturday 28th then it does appear late. Trouble is it will be presumed delivered on Friday 27th and just within time! (This is all assuming this is the 1st NIP)

It is presumed delivered and you would have to rebut that presumption at court - difficult and would require attendance at court.

Regardless of any 'late' NIP the s172 (name the driver) request is still valid and must be responded to.


Yes it's the first NIP. I'd happily go to court but only if there could only be two outcomes; either the NIP is considered out of time and cancelled, or it's considered valid and I still get offered the SAC. If there's any danger that the NIP is found valid and I get points on my licence and a (probably bigger than a fixed penalty) fine then it's not worth it.

That is to say, if pushing the issue that the NIP is late might prejudice my chances of getting offered a speed awareness course then I won't bother with that avenue.
southpaw82
You won't get a SAC at court. Fine and points.
silverfish
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 30 Nov 2015 - 21:24) *
You won't get a SAC at court. Fine and points.


Thanks, that's made my mind up then.

From a news article about the same stretch of road:
QUOTE (BBC)
Anyone caught within a certain speed will be offered a speed awareness course at a cost of £85 and will not have points on their licence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-31946664

So I'm hopeful of being offered the SAC, given that I was only just over the ACPO guidelines for prosecution (I think).
Jlc
Starting point of prosecution is +10%+2 and courses are offered up to +10%+9.

Did it actually drop on your doormat at day 15 or when you 'got it'?
silverfish
QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 30 Nov 2015 - 21:53) *
Starting point of prosecution is +10%+2 and courses are offered up to +10%+9.


Yeah that's how I understand it, so 57mph to 64mph. I also understand these are just guidelines though, they don't have to offer the course (and they could have done me for doing 51mph if they wanted).

QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 30 Nov 2015 - 21:53) *
Did it actually drop on your doormat at day 15 or when you 'got it'?

It was delivered on the 28th (day 15). There was no post when I went out that morning, and that letter and a couple more were on the doormat when I got home.
Jlc
Yes, guidelines but they don't normally deviate.

It sounds like you have a late NIP but rebutting the presumption is a tough task.
silverfish
QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 30 Nov 2015 - 22:19) *
Yes, guidelines but they don't normally deviate.

It sounds like you have a late NIP but rebutting the presumption is a tough task.

Indeed, it doesn't seem worth it because of the potential for things going the wrong way. Is posting it on day 12 considered reasonable though (that's if it was posted on the same date as is on the NIP), knowing how sketchy the post service can be? They should have posted it long before then, it's not as if they have to drive round once a week manually emptying films from cameras and getting them developed.
Jlc
Indeed, it's a little later than we normally see.

As long as it was 1st class post then it is presumed delivered within 2 working days.
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