Hello everyone.

I have been commuting on the M62 between Manchester and Leeds most days in the past 6 weeks. Within the first week of using it I received a NIP for going 57 on the 50mph temporary limit (average speed control). I was caught at 6 am. 2 weeks later, I was caught in the opposite direction at 58mph late evening.

When I am on the M62 it is night time with a lot of the road lights not working, and barely any car on the motorway.
I have noticed that trying to keep the 50mph limit tends to make me want to fall asleep.

Before anyone tells me I should sleep more, this is not the reason. Once the temporary limit finishes and I can go 70mph again, I am fine again.

I was wondering if it had ever been brought up that 50mph at night is actually dangerous?

Another reason why I find it dangerous is that after getting the first offense, I was obviously very careful on the 50mph limit. And what I find very difficult without a cruise control, is to keep a steady speed for miles without looking at my dashboard every second. I often look at my dashboard, thinking I've been going at the same speed and I'm between 55 and 60mph.

Again, when there's not many people on the road, it is hard to realise how fast you are going but it is also very dangerous to keep your eyes on the dashboard too often.

I am not asking how to get away with my NIPs, I am just wondering what are everyone's thoughts?

Am I truly the possessor of a super power in being able to maintain a known steady speed without having to be 'looking at my dashboard every second.'?

Being unable to maintain a constant speed of 50(ish) mph smacks of poor driving skills, not an inherently dangerous speed limit.

I find most modern cars are just as easy (or hard if you like) to keep at 50 as they are at 70, so if you couldn't stick to 50, what difference would it make if the limit were 70?

The fact you even suggest what you have says even more about your driving skills and view on driving than what you have actually said. Mental note to avoid the M62 at the relevant times of day!

Its good driving practice to scan dashboard, interior mirror and external mirrors every few seconds anyway. On a motorway the events going on behind are just as important as what is going on in front. If you can't stick to a limit maybe even more reason to scan regularly.

It really shouldn't be hard to keep at any speed for mile after mile without cruise control.

Have to agree with all of the above.

I cannot see how a 50mph limit can be any more dangerous in this respect than one of 70mph. Furthermore, since you were detected by average speed cameras at 57mph and 58mph you must have been travelling in excess of those speeds for part of the monitored stretch (unless you had been travelling at precisely those speeds for the entire stretch which, from your explanation, seems unlikely).

One possible remedy for your conundrum is this: the posted speed limits are, of course, the maximum that should be reached not the minimum that must be achieved at all costs. If, as it seems, you are prone to exceed the posted 50mph limit by 10mph or thereabouts perhaps you should set yourself a target of around 40mph when restricted to 50mph. That way, when you stray a little over your target you should still keep within the limit. Keeping to the speed limit is one of the basic skills needed by a careful and competent driver. If, as you suggest, you are not capable of doing so without the possibility of falling asleep, your competence must fall into question.

Sorry to be harsh, but you did ask!

50mph isn't dangerous, but is mind-numbingly boring.

Are the average cameras really set right at the lower threshold of enforcement. If true and they eventually get fitted everywhere it will be impossible to do more than 76 ever again. If you think the traffic is bad now just wait till that happens.

well maybe 78 but a mind numbing thought nevertheless

The mind does wander at 50, but if the limit is there for the protection of roadworkers I'd have no issue with it being 40mph.

Trick if your struggling to keep the speed down to 50- take the car out of 6th gear and stick it in 4th. You'll find it easier to keep the speed under control that way.

Threshold for a 70 as it stands is 10% + 2mph = 79 MPH. 82-83 on many speedos




50 mph =57 absolutely mind numbing on an empty motorway and totally unessercary. Other country's manage to turn the reduced speed off when not manned, but in this country they are purposely reduced for no reason whatsoever other than gaining a few quid in the process.

Having suffered the M25 at night for the last few weeks with temporary speed limits with no traffic around, yes it is mind-numbing, but then cruise control takes care of that.

But, having just driven across Germany, following the traffic in lane 2 and 3, I set the cruise control, then looked down to see it was 104mph!! Not that I wasn't paying attention, but at those speeds the road is more important than looking down, and there was NO speed limit on that section. TBH I felt safer at those speeds than at 50 on the M25.

50 on the M25 or thM62 for that matter,with the heavies up your chuff of flying past you is a nervous time but it keeps you awake

As professional lorry drivers rarely get caught in average speed systems, just follow one!

I stick mine onto cruise control and just go with it.

As for being dangerous - I think average speed cameras have added an extra hazard for drivers who wish to either leave or join the road. With the speed being enforced everyone is doing the same speed so nobody can move - or at least dares to speed up, over take etc etc just in case. This makes any sort of manouvre extremely difficult to judge and you have to plan lane changes well in advance. Sometimes miles in advance.

The other things is it seems that a lot of drivers really don't understand the word AVERAGE. They see the camera and put on the brakes. If you're doing 58 in a 50 and only brake when you see a camera its too late. The braking of course then makes everyone behind put on their brakes etc etc etc...

It is boring though I admit. I was on the M1 last year and it seems to be 50mph all the way. I'm surprised people haven't taken their lives through the sheer boredom.

Unfortunately it's more fun for some holding them up rather than following them. Then as above they then complain when the heavies get fed up with idiots blocking the lanes available to use for no other reasons than ignorance and because they can.

Or third.
A gear the car is comfortable in without the risk of speed creep without noticing.
And as others have said, as a driver you should be checking instruments and mirrors regularly, even on an empty road.
Keeping eyes and head moving does help reduce fatigue as well.
And although you may not feel tired, if you are finding yourself dropping off on regular trips, try adjusting what you do before the journey. Ten minute relax and a cuppa may well help.

First time I drove in USA I was gobsmacked to find how relaxing 55 was compared to our 80 plus (which was normal on motorways at the time)
Probably first realisation that all journeys didn't need to be taken with foot flat to floor.

I find 60 a lot more relaxing than 50, just as I find 90 a lot more relaxing than 70. But I agree with the *5 thing - sometimes the *right* speed might not be in steps of 10...

A lot depends on the road and state of traffic.
On fairly but not too crowded freeways in the States, in a car that was comfortable cruising at 55 but with power in reserve, seemed to have so much time to make decisions.
Motorways in the UK at the time seemed to be nose to tail at 80 plus. You had to be awake.
90 on an empty motorway, no hassle from me, been there and a lot faster.
But equally, no hassle holding 50 when speed limits call for it.
I will admit to finding it a little frustrating as many seem to get into the mindset of 50mph and follow as close to the car in front as possible.

It also depends on the car.... years back I had a MkIII Cortina. 30MPH was a pain. 2nd was just too low to be comfortable but 3rd was too high a gear. So forever steady around 35 - 40 or up down gears like a loony.

Not being funny, but if driving at 50 makes you so sleepy that you are in danger of crashing, I don't think you should be driving.

it always tickles me watching and listening to the wife as we navigate the boulevard peripherique or the Antwerp ring road. Shes always shouting watch out for this ,that from left or right cutting in at the last possible moment. All this is happening at about 20 to 25 mph Shes then perfectly happy with the same driving on the M40 at 80 mph. Moral of the story when driving keep your eyes open whatever the speed

I know exactly what you mean. Motorways are designed to be driven at 60-70 (some might say 80...) and as such are featureless and tedious at slower speeds.

Roads that normally have 50 limits and below, usually have features that keep you occupied, junctions, bends and the like.

One top tip if you're falling asleep - wind down the driver's window and stick your head out (if safe to do so), very refreshing at this time of year.

Whilst driving at 50mph round the bend, towards the farmers field where the cattle are re-enacting the great escape

Wasn't there a reduction in traffic casualties during the nationwide blanket 50mph limit in the '70s? I seem to recall that this was the reason why the single carriageway limit never reverted to 70mph after the temporary measure came to an end. I can't find authority for this, maybe someone can confirm or otherwise.

Rather then spend time regurgitating bits of the history, I'd just suggest that you read the Wikipedia article on UK speed limits.

Having just returned from 10 days riving abroad at speeds of over 110mph in places, I only saw one accident involving more than 1 car. Good lane discipline in most places with motorway speeds usually around 90mph. What a refreshing change from here where the more pedestrian rate of just about 70 seems remarkably slow and sometimes dangerously slow.

Maybe we Brits should be better educated as drivers.

Just as I, and other people on this forum has been saying.

But of course, this isn't an ideal world...