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Full Version: [NIP Wizard] Cumbria speed camera/NIP advice please.
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Smurphious
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - October 2015
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A591 Ings travelling west WF5 344635 498681
Was the NIP addressed to you? - No
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Car registered to my Wife
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Travelling to Windermere to visit friends, National speed limit reduced to 40mph, late at night (00:54 as timed on the NIP) roads dry and quiet.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Unsure
Do you know who was driving? - Unsure who was driving

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:07:02 +0000
Jlc
What advice is required? Alleged speed?
BaggieBoy
It's a very recent event, you should know who was driving.
Logician
You have two options:

(1) Work out who was driving, or failing that take your best guess. Nominating the person most likely to have been driving is not attempting to pervert the course of justice, which is deliberately naming the wrong driver.

(2) Reply offering the names of both possible drivers and explain why you are unable to determine which of you was driving at the time in question. This will almost certainly result in a summons for failure to provide driver details and you will have to persuade a court that you could not, with reasonable diligence, have identified the driver. This is not impossible, but is increasingly difficult as too many people have tried to get off speeding tickets in the past by using this defence, and magistrates have become highly suspicious of claims that two grown adults cannot remember a journey they made a few days previously. If you cannot show that you were genuinely unable to identify the driver, the penalty is 6 points, a fine of several hundred pounds, and an MS90 code on your driving licence which will make getting insurance difficult and expensive for the next 5 years - much more so than a minor speeding offence. Insurance companies see the code, and wonder what you did that was so terrible that 6 points and £500 was a better option than owning up to it...

Given the disparity in the penalties, in these circumstances taking your best guess is usually the most pragmatic option.
Smurphious
Alleged speed was 53mph in a 40.

We don't know who was driving as we were on a 300 mile journey and changed over drivers around this area, It could only be my Wife or I.
The NIP only gives option to name registered keeper or somebody else as driver. seeking advice on the correct course of action really.

From memory I recall a conversation I had with a colleague who in a similar situation requested camera evidence to attempt to identify the driver and his case never proceeded any further. Although I don't know if this was a rare case of it slipping through the system or him spinning a tale etc and cannot verify as I no longer work with him.
Pete D
Surely making a a journey at one in the morning if highly memorable if you were the driver. Was this a static camera that flashes or a mobile camera van. ? Pete D
Smurphious
QUOTE (Logician @ Sat, 31 Oct 2015 - 12:54) *
You have two options:

(1) Work out who was driving, or failing that take your best guess. Nominating the person most likely to have been driving is not attempting to pervert the course of justice, which is deliberately naming the wrong driver.

(2) Reply offering the names of both possible drivers and explain why you are unable to determine which of you was driving at the time in question. This will almost certainly result in a summons for failure to provide driver details and you will have to persuade a court that you could not, with reasonable diligence, have identified the driver. This is not impossible, but is increasingly difficult as too many people have tried to get off speeding tickets in the past by using this defence, and magistrates have become highly suspicious of claims that two grown adults cannot remember a journey they made a few days previously. If you cannot show that you were genuinely unable to identify the driver, the penalty is 6 points, a fine of several hundred pounds, and an MS90 code on your driving licence which will make getting insurance difficult and expensive for the next 5 years - much more so than a minor speeding offence. Insurance companies see the code, and wonder what you did that was so terrible that 6 points and £500 was a better option than owning up to it...

Given the disparity in the penalties, in these circumstances taking your best guess is usually the most pragmatic option.


Thank you for your concise response. We are not attempting to avoid paying as we definitely travelled that road around that time but had quite a horrendous journey with accident traffic and half term traffic etc. We changed over around that point in the journey but not aware exactly where. a layby on the A591 is as accurate as I can be.

Can anybody give any insight as to the likelihood of a speed awareness course for this offence? I suspect the speed is too much over the posted limit to qualify? Both my wife and I have clean licences.

QUOTE (Pete D @ Sat, 31 Oct 2015 - 13:01) *
Surely making a a journey at one in the morning if highly memorable if you were the driver. Was this a static camera that flashes or a mobile camera van. ? Pete D


I've looked on google maps at the sight, it is a fixed camera near a garage, and what looks to be a busy junction.

Both my Wife and I are confident drivers with years of trouble free motoring and imho we both drive to the conditions, given it was dark, dry, and the roads quiet.

Yes the 1am journey was memorable but for all the wrong reasons.


I will put myself forward as the most likely driver, and take what is due.

Thank you to all for your input.

Steve
bill w
I hope I've caught you before you post the reply.

I'd make sure that your response is absolutely unequivocal, rather than mentioning the "most likely" driver.
The more experienced on here will confirm, but I think that's just within the limit for a course. i.e. 10% + 9MPH = 53mph

Good Luck
Jlc
Yes, that speed is just within the excess to be offered a course.
Logician
Yes, a course should be on offer and make the reply unequivocal.
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