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Full Version: Help! I have received 4 PCNs for a prohibited right turn
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Adshan
Hello everyone. I really need some advice.

I received a PCN for a "prohibited right turn" from Chamberlayne road into Bolton Gardens (NW10) on 20th Sept 2015. I have lived in the neighbourhood for >18 years and I and most locals use this right turn. I had never seen a sign prohibiting this. After receiving the PCN I went and looked and saw that there were indeed two signs on the same post, one low and one high showing a no right turn allowed. However these signs are to the left of the road and when you turn right you would not see them. I had never seen them. On google maps i found a picture of a bus totally blocking the signs. I tried 3 times to view the video footage but never was allowed access. So I appealed this and stated that the signs are not visible and were probably blocked by a bus. . My appeal has been rejected and it is stated in the letters that there is no bus visible at the time I turned right, however I've not had access to this video despite numerous attempts. furthermore I have now received 3 more PCNs for the same right turn. I cant even remember doing it but must have as there are pictures of my car and the times are such that I could have.
I have heard from many locals who have been hit by the same fine of £130 and many have paid.
Do you have any ideas if I can find out
1. When this no right turn sign was placed on chamberlayne road
2. When the CCTV camera was installed
3. How many PCNs have been issued at this specific junction
4. Can you help me challenge these PCNS.

Any help gratefully received








Bluedart
Can you post your pcn's redacted of course of personal details only, leave everything else.

And, is it possible for you to take photo's of the signs, close up and long shot.
Adshan
I have tried to upload PDFs but the file size is too large!. i will go and take pictures and post them if i can figure out how.
StuartBu
QUOTE (Bluedart @ Thu, 29 Oct 2015 - 11:04) *
Can you post your pcn's redacted of course of personal details only, leave everything else.

And, is it possible for you to take photo's of the signs, close up and long shot.

AND it's not clear where these signs are in relation to the turning but I presume you meant " on the approach road" . Pics of what drivers approaching the turn ( from both directions) would see could be helpful if that is possible.

QUOTE (Adshan @ Thu, 29 Oct 2015 - 11:10) *
I have tried to upload PDFs but the file size is too large!. i will go and take pictures and post them if i can figure out how.

DO NOT use that attachment facility. Use an external host like Photobucket or Tinypic and it will generate links starting and ending with [IMG] Post those links in here.
Tarason
I too also received a PCN for a right hand turn into Bolton Gardens from Chamberlayne road, I had not idea you couldn't turn right and the signage i later found out is indeed on the left hand side of the road which i just didn't see. Im sure the numerous buses on Chamberlayne road also don't make it very easy to see the sign. I made a representation to the council which was refused so now i am going to appeal as I do think its not difficult for a sign to be put in place on the junction of Chamberlayne road and Bolton Gardens enabling all drivers to see it.
RottenToTheCore
Is this the location?

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5334555,-0....3312!8i6656

Here is advice on hosting your photos externally (so that file size is not a problem), please avoid uploading as PDF, scan and upload them as JPG instead.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858&st=0

Which council issued the PCNs?
John U.K.
QUOTE (Tarason @ Tue, 29 Dec 2015 - 22:35) *
I too also received a PCN for a right hand turn into Bolton Gardens from Chamberlayne road, I had not idea you couldn't turn right and the signage i later found out is indeed on the left hand side of the road which i just didn't see. Im sure the numerous buses on Chamberlayne road also don't make it very easy to see the sign. I made a representation to the council which was refused so now i am going to appeal as I do think its not difficult for a sign to be put in place on the junction of Chamberlayne road and Bolton Gardens enabling all drivers to see it.


The OP has not kept us informed of any further developments here. For advice from this forum suggest you start your own thread:
As usual, please post up the PCN (both sides)
Also post up a copies of your representations to the Council and their reply.

Photo or scan. see http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858&st=0
for how to do it. I use Tinypic for stage 2 with no problems.

Redact/obscure personal details, PCN no. Reg No.
LEAVE IN all dates/times; precise location, Contravention code and description.
RottenToTheCore
QUOTE (RottenToTheCore @ Tue, 29 Dec 2015 - 22:48) *
Which council issued the PCNs?


Is it Brent? If so, you should be able to request and view the CCTV footage here:

https://viewmypcn.co.uk/default.aspx

QUOTE (John U.K. @ Tue, 29 Dec 2015 - 22:48) *
The OP has not kept us informed of any further developments here. For advice from this forum suggest you start your own thread:


Ah...
Mr Mustard
I think there should be two 'no right turn signs' (sign 612) one on each side of the carriageway. The left hand side sign is half way along a bus stop so all it needs is a bus and you can't see it.

I did a tribunal appeal at this location recently. On the day I was told that the local authority were not contesting but they had sent the Evidence Pack 3 weeks prior to the Appellant (motorist) which is rather odd.

Mad Mick V
Too late for this one but useful for the future:-

2150469124

Date 2/04/2016

Location: Chamberlayne Road / Bolton Gardens CCTV Lanewatch

At the Appellant's request a Personal Hearing was re-scheduled for midday today, 2nd April 2016; the Appellant indicated his inability to attend on time by telephone and was informed that the case would be determined in his absence.

It falls to me now to determine this matter on the evidence presently before me.

The Enforcement Authority assert that vehicle YJ executed a manoeuvre contrary to signage prohibiting the same.

The Appellant denies liability for the ensuing Penalty Charge Notice on the basis of the prevailing circumstances and challenge as contained in his written representations. The Enforcement Authority who assert that the said vehicle was so driven contrary to a restriction are obliged to adduce evidence to the requisite standard to substantiate that assertion.
The evidence upon which the Enforcement Authority rely to substantiate the assertion comprises the certified copy Penalty Charge Notice, and extracts of governing Traffic Management Order provisions together with contemporaneous photographic evidence: CCTV footage and still frames taken there-from revealing the said vehicle in motion.

The Enforcement Authority also adduce a map/plan and 3 images to show the signage notifying motorists of the restriction.

The library images suggest the presence of two ‘no right turn’ signs on the one post. However, the contemporaneous moving images only show a side view and it appears there was only one circular sign in place.

The library images also establish the pole housing the relevant sign/s to be opposite the mouths of 2 turnings on the opposite side of the road; positioned as the pole is, not directly opposite one or another, I find the intent of the sign to be ambiguous since it could apply to either turning.

Further, I note that there is nothing at the entrance of Bolton Road to indicate to southbound traffic that it cannot turn into Bolton Road. A single ‘no right turn’ may in many situations be sufficient but at this location confusion can clearly arise.

Although it is incumbent upon a motorist to consult signage and comply with restrictions, it is incumbent upon an enforcement authority to ensure the signage implementing the terms of a Traffic Management Order is adequate to communicate the nature and extent of the restriction to motorists.

In this instance I am not satisfied that the restriction is clearly, adequately and unambiguously signed.


Evidentially therefore I cannot find as a fact that the contravention occurred.

Accordingly I allow this Appeal

Mick
parking rob
I have been appealing this PCN at Bolton gardens since October 2015 and twice requested the adjudicators look at it. There is a bus in full view blocking the restriction signs on the left preventing me from seeing the no right signs (very visible in the CCTV footage) when I turned.
But earlier this week a letter fro the adjudicators turning the appeal down and today I received a letter from Brent telling me it had been increased to £195!! I thought worst ways it would go up to £130 as I had been in constant response with the adjudicators who twice turned it down. I have now emailed Brent to inform them that I will be taking it to judicial review and what will the charges be if unsuccessful.
I also asked Brent to reconsider this appeal as THREE new signs have been erected since October when I received this fine so Brent are clearly aware that the signage was inadequate... dry.gif

And Brent with there inconsistences is what makes me sick, half a dozen will get off with this fine and a dozen not. Same no right turn, same crappy signage. .. who decides that I pay and the next challenge doesn't mellow.gif mellow.gif
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