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Full Version: [NIP Wizard] Essex Police NIP in Chigwell
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samosa111
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - October 2015
Date of the NIP: - 3 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A113 HIGH ROAD, CHIGWELL, NEAR J/W TURPINS LANE
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - I AM ON THE V5 DOC BUT IT IS A CAR MY WIFE USES ON A DAILY BASIS.
How many current points do you have? - 6
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons -

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - No
Were you driving? - No
Do you know who was driving? - Yes

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • Complete the Section 172 statement naming the person you believe was driving.
    You aren't incriminating them - they'll receive a NIP to complete themselves in due course.

    (You might also like to let that person know that they can expect to receive one, and give them the link to this Wizard for when it arrives!)

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 16:27:17 +0000
southpaw82
Any questions?
BaggieBoy
So name her. She will get her own notice in due course.

What was the speed and limit?
samosa111
Not had one of these before. My first time so please bear with me if I stumble along the way.


It says on the Intention To Prosecute ...

"exceed 30mph speed limit-restricted road-automatic camera device, speed of vehicle: 38mph

My first instinct was to request photographic evidence, but the NIP states on the back that "There is no requirement" to do so and it will only be provided once it's "progressed to Court". Is that true?

Many years ago I received a speeding ticket in the post and I asked for a photo and they never followed it up. They didnt even pursue the ticket. Have things changed?
The Rookie
You are not entitled to any evidence at this stage, that is correct, however a polite request for photos to help you confirm the drivers ID or similar (rather than a direct demand for evidence) will usually get you want you want.

Things have changed a lot, everything is computerised and it's rare for cases to fall down the back of the filing cabinet as yours did.
BaggieBoy
They have no requirement to supply evidence. Asking for a photographs to "help with the identification of driver" may result in photographs being supplied. Regardless the driver must be named within the 28 days allowed, else you will find your self in court and facing 6 points, a large fine and even bigger court costs. This things don't go away nowadays if you ask for stuff.

That speed will likely result in the offer of a speed awareness course, assuming the driver hasn't done one in the last 3 years. Being an "awkward" customer may see the course not being offered.
samosa111
OK so as per Baggie and Rookies advice I write a polite letter to help me ID-ing the driver. I send it out recorded delivery tomorrow.

My wife has been on one of those speed awareness things within the past 3 years so doubtful their offer it again.

Out of interest, if they cannot provide a photo does that make the NIP unenforceable?

peterguk
QUOTE (samosa111 @ Thu, 15 Oct 2015 - 18:16) *
Out of interest, if they cannot provide a photo does that make the NIP unenforceable?


Absolutely not.
BaggieBoy
QUOTE (samosa111 @ Thu, 15 Oct 2015 - 18:16) *
Out of interest, if they cannot provide a photo does that make the NIP unenforceable?

Nope. They are quite entitled to withhold the evidence unless it goes to court and a not guilty plea is entered.

Don't try to turn a 3 point and £100 fixed penalty into a court case that could cost you several hundred pounds.
thisisntme
QUOTE (samosa111 @ Thu, 15 Oct 2015 - 17:16) *
OK so as per Baggie and Rookies advice I write a polite letter to help me ID-ing the driver. I send it out recorded delivery tomorrow.

My wife has been on one of those speed awareness things within the past 3 years so doubtful their offer it again.

Out of interest, if they cannot provide a photo does that make the NIP unenforceable?


No it doesn't. You still have to provide details. There is a defence of not being able to identify, but you have to satisfy the court that you used exhaustive searching and research to find out who was driving. By that time the fixed penalty will be long gone and you would be faced with fail to furnish rather than a simple speeding fine which carries 6 points, higher fine and a code that leads to eye watering premiums.
peterguk
QUOTE (thisisntme @ Thu, 15 Oct 2015 - 18:54) *
QUOTE (samosa111 @ Thu, 15 Oct 2015 - 17:16) *
OK so as per Baggie and Rookies advice I write a polite letter to help me ID-ing the driver. I send it out recorded delivery tomorrow.

My wife has been on one of those speed awareness things within the past 3 years so doubtful their offer it again.

Out of interest, if they cannot provide a photo does that make the NIP unenforceable?


No it doesn't. You still have to provide details. There is a defence of not being able to identify, but you have to satisfy the court that you used exhaustive searching and research to find out who was driving. By that time the fixed penalty will be long gone and you would be faced with fail to furnish rather than a simple speeding fine which carries 6 points, higher fine and a code that leads to eye watering premiums.



Luckily in this case there is no doubt as to the identity of the driver.
samosa111
so.. once I've completed the form with my wife's details... They'll resend the doc addressed to her. But then what happens? Any way to deal with it then or is it just a case of accepting the points & fine?
peterguk
QUOTE (samosa111 @ Thu, 15 Oct 2015 - 19:41) *
so.. once I've completed the form with my wife's details... They'll resend the doc addressed to her.


Correct.

QUOTE (samosa111 @ Thu, 15 Oct 2015 - 19:41) *
But then what happens? Any way to deal with it then or is it just a case of accepting the points & fine?


She names herself.

In the absence of any defence, 3 points and £100 looks the likely outcome.
The Rookie
QUOTE (samosa111 @ Thu, 15 Oct 2015 - 18:16) *
OK so as per Baggie and Rookies advice I write a polite letter to help me ID-ing the driver. I send it out recorded delivery tomorrow.

My wife has been on one of those speed awareness things within the past 3 years so doubtful their offer it again.

Out of interest, if they cannot provide a photo does that make the NIP unenforceable?

I wouldn't send recorded, it will attract attention unnecessarily, first class will suffice, you get no benefit from knowing the postman recorded the delivery anyway!

No photo is needed at all, a NIP is a notice so isn't enforceable or otherwise, but the underlying case is still eminently prosecuteable with no photo. Many people get caught speeding by police officers and stopped at the roadside and there is no photo.
Jlc
QUOTE (samosa111 @ Thu, 15 Oct 2015 - 19:41) *
Any way to deal with it then or is it just a case of accepting the points & fine?

Was she not speeding then?
samosa111
QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 15 Oct 2015 - 20:20) *
QUOTE (samosa111 @ Thu, 15 Oct 2015 - 19:41) *
Any way to deal with it then or is it just a case of accepting the points & fine?

Was she not speeding then?



She doesnt recall speeding.
peterguk
QUOTE (samosa111 @ Thu, 22 Oct 2015 - 17:28) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 15 Oct 2015 - 20:20) *
QUOTE (samosa111 @ Thu, 15 Oct 2015 - 19:41) *
Any way to deal with it then or is it just a case of accepting the points & fine?

Was she not speeding then?



She doesnt recall speeding.



Since she can't prove she wasn't exceeding the limit, not much point in taking it to court. £100 fine and 3 points is her best way out.

BTW, 38 will be more than 40 on the speedo, so maybe she needs to concentrate a little more.
samosa111
QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 22 Oct 2015 - 17:38) *
QUOTE (samosa111 @ Thu, 22 Oct 2015 - 17:28) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 15 Oct 2015 - 20:20) *
QUOTE (samosa111 @ Thu, 15 Oct 2015 - 19:41) *
Any way to deal with it then or is it just a case of accepting the points & fine?

Was she not speeding then?



She doesnt recall speeding.



Since she can't prove she wasn't exceeding the limit, not much point in taking it to court. £100 fine and 3 points is her best way out.

BTW, 38 will be more than 40 on the speedo, so maybe she needs to concentrate a little more.



Lol. Just like when she spends £300 on a handbag and tells me it only felt like £50!

It looks like the consensus her is for her to take the 3 points, pay the fine and be more careful in future

Thanks for the guidance everyone. Will do as everyone has suggested
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