Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Armtrac advice
FightBack Forums > Queries > Private Parking Tickets & Clamping
RobA19
Newbie here requesting advice.

In August this year I rented a seafront apartment in a block in Newquay for a week, which had its own private car park.

The landlord gave me a parking permit (large A4 size thing!) & told me to display it accordingly on dashboard.

I did this religiously apart from one wet, windy day when it slipped off the dashboard to the floor.

To my dismay I found a PCN from Armtrac on the windscreen of my hire car saying the fine would be £100 or £60 if paid within 14 days.

I appealed, sending them photos of the valid permit for the apartment for that week & confirming that I was authorised to park in the car park. Also sent them a copy of the permit with the correct dates on it for the period of my rental.

The appeal was rejected, leaving me potentially with a heavy fine for parking in the car park for the apartment I was renting & was entitled to park in. How crazy is that!

I believe I can appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS), but I wonder if this is worth doing or not?

Any advice gratefully received. Thanks.

Rob
Skiddaw
The standard advice in these cases of residential ticketing is to check your lease to see if it mentions a permit scheme. If it doesn't that is usually your trump card.

Copied from other thread as this is the best first step.
farmerboy
QUOTE (RobA19 @ Sat, 10 Oct 2015 - 18:45) *
The appeal was rejected, leaving me potentially with a heavy fine for parking in the car park for the apartment I was renting &
was entitled to park in. How crazy is that!


Welcome to the world of private parking. If the terms of the lease don't mention having to show a permit for that week then point that out to Armtrac and ask them to discuss the matter in court if they so wish. You should also decline their offer to appeal to the IAS as evidence shows that they are corrupt and currently under investigation. You will supply evidence in a court of this if required.
freddy1
there is no lease , he rented a hotel flat for a week

OP , did it make any mention on the terms and conditions when you were paying for the ONE WEEK RENT on the property
Lynnzer
Signs? What signs were displayed in the car park.
Was there anything on a notice board inside the hotel, or any notification given in any rental agreement.

The fact that the landlord gave you a permit is sufficient notification that you had the right to peaceful enjoyment of the car parking space.

You know, the easiest way to kill these things is to just call the landlord and tell him that you are just about to write a Trip Advisor review and does he want you to mention being "fined" for parking when you forgot to display a permit.
Give it a try first.

farmerboy
QUOTE (freddy1 @ Sat, 10 Oct 2015 - 19:49) *
there is no lease , he rented a hotel flat for a week

OP , did it make any mention on the terms and conditions when you were paying for the ONE WEEK RENT on the property

I think the OP knows what he needs to do. I don't own a property and don't have a contract for my current abode. I don't know the difference between rent and lease. He stayed in the flat for a week. He needs to read the paperwork.
emanresu
QUOTE
The landlord gave me a parking permit


He's a resident with the right to be there. Non-display of a permit does not make him a trespasser so he should clearly indicate that Armtac should sling their hook and go bully someone else.
Lynnzer
I say it again:

The fact that the landlord gave you a permit is sufficient notification that you had the right to peaceful enjoyment of the car parking space.

You know, the easiest way to kill these things is to just call the landlord and tell him that you are just about to write a Trip Advisor review and does he want you to mention being "fined" for parking when you forgot to display a permit.
Give it a try first.
farmerboy
QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Sun, 11 Oct 2015 - 10:13) *
I say it again:

The fact that the landlord gave you a permit is sufficient notification that you had the right to peaceful enjoyment of the car parking space.

You know, the easiest way to kill these things is to just call the landlord and tell him that you are just about to write a Trip Advisor review and does he want you to mention being "fined" for parking when you forgot to display a permit.
Give it a try first.


Great advice. Whether the landlord of the flat is able to cancel or not it will continue to sow a seed of discontent about employing private parking companies.
RobA19
Thanks for all the replies. Just to confirm, the flat was in a block of about 20 with its own parking area at the back. There were signs in the car park to confirm it was private residential parking. Presumably this was to discourage casual users as the car park was next to a main road close to the beach.
Before checking out this site, like many I guess, I assumed the PCN was a legit thing, which is why I tried to reason with them by sending them a copy of my permit & confirmation that I was a resident at that point in time.
To, perhaps, further complicate matters they asked me if I was the registered keeper of the vehicle. In fact it was owned by Europcar as it was also rented for the week. Are they likely to pursue the 'fine' via Europcar if I refuse to play ball? My girlfriend is also now anxious that it will come back to affect her as the car and the flat was rented in her name.
I have photos of the PCN, the authorised parking permit for the week's rental and also the signage in the car park if that helps.
nosferatu1001
It cannot go to the rental company, as they know the name and address of the driver. If they do change then complaint to,the bpa, dvla and ICO for breaches of the dpa

What helps is telling the landlord to tell the PPC to cancel. Otherwise the trip advisor write up will be altered somewhat.
ostell
Write to Europcar, in your girlfriend's name, and tell them that you have received a PCN from Armtrac and you are handling it. Also tell them to ignore any communication from Armtrac as you are handling it as the driver.
RobA19
The landlord is proving very unhelpful - "I am sorry to hear that you received a parking ticket from Armtrac. The management company which represents all of the owners, however, does not intervene in such matters."

Trip Advisor seems a recourse for that, not that it will help resolve this scam. I'll complete the IAS appeal today and see where that takes me. This sort of stuff is very wearying. It's a bit like someone clamping your car in your own driveway and saying pay £100 to release it. dry.gif
Lynnzer
Let's get back to basics then.
Signs. Where were they in relation to the entrance. How many were there in conspicuous locations (approx) and essentially what did they have on them.
If you could let us know the address or better still go there go Google Street Maps and copy the link for us we can see ourselves if any potential problem arises from poor signage.

A copy of the ticket would be useful if you can post it.
There still remains the fact that your accommodation included free parking access so even if you forgot to display a permit, it didn't nullify that right. That's for a potential court hearing if they were daft enough to go that far.

If you can name the hotel, it might jog someone's memory of another case there.
You've nothing to lose.
Gan
QUOTE (RobA19 @ Mon, 12 Oct 2015 - 11:46) *
The landlord is proving very unhelpful - "I am sorry to hear that you received a parking ticket from Armtrac. The management company which represents all of the owners, however, does not intervene in such matters."

Trip Advisor seems a recourse for that, not that it will help resolve this scam. I'll complete the IAS appeal today and see where that takes me. This sort of stuff is very wearying. It's a bit like someone clamping your car in your own driveway and saying pay £100 to release it. dry.gif

Don't go near the IAS

It's part of Armtrac's own trade association and motorists have no chance

It damages your chances and exposes you to costs for being unreasonable if you ignore the inevitable IAS decision and Armtrac take you to court later
Robbo223
If I may make a small comment here Armtrac (in their real form as KBT Cornwall Ltd) didn't take anyone to court between October 2013 and September 2014 (see here).

They are almost certainly in breach of The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013
(https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ations-2013.pdf)

(from page 7):-

Information to be provided before making an off-premises contract

10. (1) Before the consumer is bound by an off-premises contract, the trader— (a) must give the consumer the information listed in Schedule 2 in a clear and comprehensible manner,


(from page 22):-

SCHEDULE 2 - Information relating to distance and off-premises contracts The information referred to in regulations 10(1) and 13(1) is (subject to the note at the end of this Schedule)— (a) the main characteristics of the goods or services, to the extent appropriate to the medium of communication and to the goods or services; (b) the identity of the trader (such as the trader’s trading name); © the geographical address at which the trader is established and, where available, the trader’s telephone number, fax number and e-mail address, to enable the consumer to contact the trader quickly and communicate efficiently.


In other words they hide behind a PO Box number in a free car park (these regs only apply if there is no ticket machine and no ANPR cameras, which you've not mentioned).

I'd leave the Tripadvisor review from hell, file all correspondence from Armtrac, and get on with your life. You will be contacted by TNC Parking who will attempt to chase the 'debt' but these too are paper tigers. As has been said don't pay up and don't appeal to the IAS.
RobA19
QUOTE (freddy1 @ Sat, 10 Oct 2015 - 19:49) *
there is no lease , he rented a hotel flat for a week

OP , did it make any mention on the terms and conditions when you were paying for the ONE WEEK RENT on the property


Nothing mentioned about parking restrictions in the T&C when rental paid.
emanresu
QUOTE
Armtrac (in their real form as KBT Cornwall Ltd) didn't take anyone to court between October 2013 and September 2014


Add October 2014 to June 2015 to that.
RobA19
QUOTE (emanresu @ Mon, 12 Oct 2015 - 17:26) *
QUOTE
Armtrac (in their real form as KBT Cornwall Ltd) didn't take anyone to court between October 2013 and September 2014


Add October 2014 to June 2015 to that.


Well that's good to know, thanks biggrin.gif
kernow2015
At rear of the former Carrick district council offices in Truro they've still got their BPA sign up stating they operate in the car park.
farmerboy
QUOTE (kernow2015 @ Mon, 19 Oct 2015 - 19:05) *
At rear of the former Carrick district council offices in Truro they've still got their BPA sign up stating they operate in the car park.


Theres still their BPA signs all over Penryn. They've only changed the signs in the carparks where they issue regular tickets.
Returning the misery
When you've sorted this, please leave as much feedback as you can on all the businesses you used in Cornwall.

The facebook page "Newer Newquay" may also generate a response .
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.