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pbal31
Hi All,

I recently received a PCN in regards to a parking bay suspension outside my house. We do have residents parking restrictions for which I have a permit. As you can see from the pictures the signage was not the best. The sign itself is basically in a the bush and and below the knee in terms of eye line. I parked about 20 meters from the sign. Needless to say, I did not see the sign until the PCN had been issued and I went looking for the sign. I presume this sign does not comply with the necessary regulations on signage etc would appreciate what are the best form of words to use in my appeal.

Peter







PASTMYBEST
Post the photos please
hcandersen
Agreed.

OP, I don't know what point you are trying to make. Are you telling us that this was the nearest traffic sign to your location or what?

When was the last time you parked in the parking place? How many times have done so within, say, the last 2 months?
DancingDad
Got a close up of the sign please ?
Mad Mick V
Here's the GSV:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.576522,-0...3312!8i6656

Both signs are defective because they cannot be seen by drivers approaching the bay. In legal parlance their "adequacy" is subject to question. In my view this is an easy win for the OP.

OP have a look on the Council's parking web page and see if the CEO has submitted photos.

Mick
PASTMYBEST
para 1.21 TSM Chapter 3

MOUNTING
1.21 The normal mounting height measured to
the lower edge of a sign or backing board (or any
supplementary plate) is between 900mm and
1500 mm above the carriageway alongside. The
greater height should be used where vehicle spray is
likely to soil the sign, or above planted areas. Careful
consideration should be given to any proposal to
mount signs at a low height, such as on railings or
bollards, as there is a risk of drivers not noticing
them, especially at night or when they could be
obscured by parked vehicles or pedestrians. Where
signs are erected above footways, or in areas likely or
intended to be used by pedestrians (e.g. pedestrian
refuges), a headroom of 2300 mm is recommended,
with 2100 mm as an absolute minimum. A clearance
of at least 2300mm should be maintained over a
cycle track or shared cycleway /footway.
hcandersen
On parking in a clearly marked parking place, which this is, the motorist's obligation is to look for the regulating traffic sign. Hence my questions to the OP which have not been answered.

The OP's PCN was timed during the normal restricted period. Chance? If the OP parked without the benefit of a permit, then why?

Or did they park knowing that the restriction applied, in which case the issue of knowing the restriction and NOT needing to look for the traffic sign applies. In which case the suspension sign would need to attract the motorist's attention.

OP, pl answer the questions regarding your parking habits and whether you displayed a valid permit.
DancingDad
I would still like a clear photo of the wording on the suspension sign.

But even without.
A motorist in parking in this bay can quite possible see the existing sign and decide whether or not they will be effected by the restrictions before they park.
Over the boot or bonnet of a car parked in front of the sign while they are still in their vehicle.
But quite likely to not see the suspension sign below boot/bonnet level.
Having read the existing sign and parked, why would they even look back when they left the vehicle, they have complied with their duty to check and abide by the signage placed to convey the restriction.

We do this all the time with pole signs, see parking spaces and check the signs, usually before even parking.
Which is why signs are placed facing the carriageway and at reasonable height.
Which even the standard one isn't.

If it is so simple to miss the suspension sign, it cannot be said to be placed in such a way as to adequately convey the restriction to the motorist.

There is no duty on any motorist to check and double check and then peer around at ground level or in the bushes.... just in case.
hcandersen
But there is a duty to look on first parking and the traffic sign is clear and if it was the closest then logic would dictate that this is the one which the motorist would read and hence could not miss the suspension sign.

IMO, this hinges on whether the OP had a permit, which was a resident's which implies they live local and might use the bay on a regular basis.

1. OP has permit. They know the restriction and did not notice the suspension notice for the reasons given = strong case.

2. OP doesn't have permit and looked for sign = they would have driven off because they weren't entitled to park there anyway.
2a As for 2, but decided to chance their arm = see 3 below.

3. OP doesn't have permit, didn't look for sign = does themselves no favours at adjudication - do we have the concept of 'clean hands'? Their case is greatly weakened IMO.

OP, pl answer the questions.

Don't tell us what you think might benefit your case, just tell us the facts.
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