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Full Version: Newcastle upon Tyne PCN - Illegal Permit Bays and Signage?
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this morning I awoke to find a PCN attached to my windscreen. After some research online I believe that both the markings for the permit bay and the signage do not meet government requirements, although I would like some clarification if possible. The possible requirements not met are outlined below:

  1. There should be a single terminating line at each end - non are present
  2. If the bay is less than 30 meters long there should be a sign in the middle of the bay - not present (in other location)
  3. A standard parking bay has a maximum width of 3.6m - requirements not met (much larger)

I have also attached photos of the parking bay and signage [edit: and also provided images of the PCN].

I am UNABLE to provide a GSV link as that particular area of the road is not available.

Again, any help/clarification will be greatly appreciated!
John U.K.
As usual, please post up the PCN (both sides)
Also post up a link to GSV (Google Street View) of location

Photo or scan. see
for how to do it. I use Tinypic for stage 2 with no problems.

Redact/obscure personal details, PCN no. Reg No.
LEAVE IN all dates/times; precise location, Contravention code and description.
Hi John,

I have provided photos of the PCN but was unable to provide GSV link as that particular area of the road has not been covered.

In terms of markings, I don't think that an adjudicator will agree with you.
Best will in the world and much as we wish that strict compliance applied, the photos you provide show a marked bay.
And I can just hear the adjudicator saying substantially compliant.
Kerbs can obviate the need for closing markings on a bay BTW

But a pole sign covered in foliage is another kettle of fish.
Unreadable so how is a motorist expected to understand the restriction?
And if parking in the bay and looking for a pole sign, would one really expect a motorist to look at the extreme corner when there is nothing in the middle of the bay?
Mad Mick V

I am not to sure whether that sign is up to date either. The Order from 2009 indicates it should read 7.30am -9.30 am and 5.00pm -10.00pm -Mon-Sat. Schedule 11 here:-

IMO if it doesn't fully comply with the parking places order then the bay is unenforceable.

Dunno how you can tell it doesn't from that photo Mick smile.gif
Hey Mick,

very interesting point you have made there. I can confirm that the sign does NOT say and between the parking times. I can also confirm that NO parking places similar to this in Newcastle, as far as I have seen, have the keyword and.

Can someone correct me if I am wrong here:

By act I refer to "The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002".

Schedule 2 of the act, diagram 660, states that a permit holders sign can only be used in conjunction with the road markings in diagrams 1028.3, 1028.4, 1032, and 1033. 1028.3 and 1028.4 may only be used when omitted with a list of certain words; not valid. 1033 are Echelon parking spaces, with each space having a maximum width of 2500mm (2.5m) and as these spaces have not been separated and the width is clearly over 2500mm I believe that this space is unenforceable. 1032 states "parking bay with individual spaces" in which the maximum width of a space is 2700mm (2.7m). Now I can say that the parking bay has not been separated into individual parking spaces thus making it one space. This one space is over 2700mm in width, thus I believe making it unenforceable.

If someone could confirm this, or correct me if I am wrong, I would be very grateful!
Mad Mick V
The point I was making was that the sign appeared to miss the later times not the "and".

QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Sun, 2 Aug 2015 - 13:45) *
The point I was making was that the sign appeared to miss the later times not the "and".

My mistake Mick. It does have the later times although the foliage was blocking this in the photo.
'I awoke to find...'

Methinks we're not getting the full story here. Casual parking in an area with which you are unfamiliar is one thing, knowing and residing in the area is something else as an adj would tell you clearly.

Full story pl.
I can think of many occasions I awoke in a strange place smile.gif
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