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Benny.T
Hi,

My girlfriend received an NIP for an alleged speeding offence of doing 38 in a 30 and we need some guidance. I don't know if 'the driver' was going this fast or not and I'm not going to bother spinning a story here. 'The driver' could have been, or might not have been, we are really not sure here.

http://tinypic.com/r/152hp8z/8


So this is the camera, and we were driving towards the camera at the time. A woman was driving past us on the other side of the road, so I am wondering if it had flashed her but recognised our numberplate possibly. This might be a gatso but I don't think it is now....

So what's the best course of action? currently nothing has been done

kind regards

Benny.T

I should probably add that she was a passenger at the time
AntonyMMM
She can ask for pictures to "aid identification of the driver" , which they will usually supply, but she still needs to respond with a name within the 28 days or risk a much more serious offence.
Benny.T
So if she responds today asking for that information, what is good to include in the letter?

Just asking to see the photos for identifying the driver, or adding in extra things? perhaps asking what type of camera it was? Really not sure if it's a gatso or not

Benny
AntonyMMM
Include nothing else ... do not mention the word evidence.

Just ask for access to the pictures - they don't have to oblige, but they will usually send you a copy or possibly a link to a website.




Benny.T
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - July 2015
Date of the NIP: - 1 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 3 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Birchwood Road nr Birchwood Drive, Wilmington
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I was a passenger in the car, and the driver was caught allegely doing 38 in a 30 by what we now believe is a Trevulo camera, though it may have been a Gatso

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - No
Do you know who was driving? - Yes
- No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 12:27:18 +0000

QUOTE (AntonyMMM @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 13:23) *
Include nothing else ... do not mention the word evidence.

Just ask for access to the pictures - they don't have to oblige, but they will usually send you a copy or possibly a link to a website.



Is it best to write recorded delivery, or email, or both?

Once the photos come back, what can we do then?
AntonyMMM
from your original post I thought you were unsure who was driving.

If you know who was driving , getting the picture rarely gains you little except a bit of time and a nice souvenir. I suppose there is a remote chance it will show something wrong with the measurement, but very unlikely. If it has measured your speed whilst going towards it, then it is a Truvelo.

The driver, once named and if eligible, should get an offer of a SAC (Speed Awareness Course).
captain swoop
That is a Truvelo Camera. It takes pictures head on as you approach it.
Benny.T
QUOTE (AntonyMMM @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 13:35) *
from your original post I thought you were unsure who was driving.

If you know who was driving , getting the picture rarely gains you little except a bit of time and a nice souvenir. I suppose there is a remote chance it will show something wrong with the measurement, but very unlikely. If it has measured your speed whilst going towards it, then it is a Truvelo.

The driver, once named and if eligible, should get an offer of a SAC (Speed Awareness Course).


Sorry yes she knows who the driver is but obviously i'm not going to say 'who' that is on here

We just wanted to make sure that there wasn't a chance it could have been meant for the car passing the other way, and perhaps its number plate was blocked out by our car being in the way and so read our plate incorrectly. Also, are we able to challenge the speed read? The driver is always careful going past this camera and doesn't feel that they were exceeding the limit... And doesn't particularly want for a speed awareness course !
captain swoop
QUOTE (Benny.T @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 13:47) *
QUOTE (AntonyMMM @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 13:35) *
from your original post I thought you were unsure who was driving.

If you know who was driving , getting the picture rarely gains you little except a bit of time and a nice souvenir. I suppose there is a remote chance it will show something wrong with the measurement, but very unlikely. If it has measured your speed whilst going towards it, then it is a Truvelo.

The driver, once named and if eligible, should get an offer of a SAC (Speed Awareness Course).


Sorry yes she knows who the driver is but obviously i'm not going to say 'who' that is on here

We just wanted to make sure that there wasn't a chance it could have been meant for the car passing the other way, and perhaps its number plate was blocked out by our car being in the way and so read our plate incorrectly. Also, are we able to challenge the speed read? The driver is always careful going past this camera and doesn't feel that they were exceeding the limit... And doesn't particularly want for a speed awareness course !


As already stated it is a Truvelo that detects cars heading towards it, it will not be the car going the other way.
On the road in front of the camera are three closely spaced lines, the front wheel of the car should be within those lines, it is a secondary check that it is working OK.
c
Benny.T
QUOTE (captain swoop @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 13:50) *
As already stated it is a Truvelo that detects cars heading towards it, it will not be the car going the other way.
On the road in front of the camera are three closely spaced lines, the front wheel of the car should be within those lines, it is a secondary check that it is working OK.
c



Yes I realise that, but what if it was the person on the other side of the road who triggered the photo, and our car was positioned in such a way that the camera recorded our numberplate instead of theirs? Or is that just never going to happen?

AntonyMMM
QUOTE (Benny.T @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 14:04) *
QUOTE (captain swoop @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 13:50) *
As already stated it is a Truvelo that detects cars heading towards it, it will not be the car going the other way.
On the road in front of the camera are three closely spaced lines, the front wheel of the car should be within those lines, it is a secondary check that it is working OK.
c



Yes I realise that, but what if it was the person on the other side of the road who triggered the photo, and our car was positioned in such a way that the camera recorded our numberplate instead of theirs? Or is that just never going to happen?


The person on the other side of the road wasn't travelling towards the Truvelo camera though .....
Benny.T
The camera covers both sides of the road, and if you look back on google maps the 3 lines are positioned in such a way that if we both passed them, it is possible that their plates could be obscured by our car and the ANPR has picked up our numberplate?
Kickaha
Now try to get your head round this - the car on the other side of the road did not trigger the camera, you did.

Even if it were possible for the camera to be triggered by a car going away from it, by the time it was triggered it would be well outside the lines.
AntonyMMM
To cover the other side of the road, the Truvelo would be physically turned around. I think you can see the 3 lines for the right hand carriageway on your picture just under the front wheels of the car with its headlights on in the distance.
captain swoop
For the shot to be valid your wheels will have to be within the 3 lines on the road.
truvelo works with buried sensors in the road that calculate your speed then fire the camera when it thinks your wheels will be within the lines.
Benny.T
QUOTE (AntonyMMM @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 14:38) *
To cover the other side of the road, the Truvelo would be physically turned around. I think you can see the 3 lines for the right hand carriageway on your picture just under the front wheels of the car with its headlights on in the distance.


When we went past on the way back it looked like there were 3 lines on both sides of the road (indicating that it could get you from both), but it looks like it's a single line that I've seen here

So once the driver has been named, what's the next course of action? Just accept and do the course, or appeal it somehow?
peterguk
QUOTE (Benny.T @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 15:47) *
Just accept and do the course, or appeal it somehow?


If offered take the course - you have no defence.
Benny.T
QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 15:49) *
QUOTE (Benny.T @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 15:47) *
Just accept and do the course, or appeal it somehow?


If offered take the course - you have no defence.



So no chance of seeing if the camera actually reads correctly? I've seen cars go past this one very fast in the past (It looks like it only covers the other side of the road) and I've never seen it going off
AntonyMMM
There is nothing to appeal against - you name the driver, then if you wish you can decline the course and then the FPN which would follow and ask for it to be dealt with in court. But as you have no realistic defence, that would be a stupid and very expensive thing to do.

Take the course.

QUOTE (Benny.T @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 15:56) *
So no chance of seeing if the camera actually reads correctly? I've seen cars go past this one very fast in the past (It looks like it only covers the other side of the road) and I've never seen it going off


You can get the picture - if your wheels are on the lines, it is working correctly.

It covers the other side of the road by being physically turned around.....have one down the road from me which gets turned every couple of months.
The Rookie
Not sure why you are so coy about naming the driver when you (well your GF) has a legal obligation to. I assume you were driving though?
facade
QUOTE (Benny.T @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 15:56) *
So no chance of seeing if the camera actually reads correctly? I've seen cars go past this one very fast in the past (It looks like it only covers the other side of the road) and I've never seen it going off



As stated, the camera self checks because it calculates your speed, then fires the camera the exact time after you pass the trigger to put your front wheel on that mark. If it got the speed wrong, or the timing, you wouldn't be on the mark.

You won't see a truvelo flash, as they face into your eyes they use an infra red flash that you will not notice unless you look right into the camera.

However, a photograph "to help identify the driver" will show the drivers face, and the front wheel should be on the check marks. (If it isn't then you may have a defence)
BaggieBoy
QUOTE (facade @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 19:28) *
You won't see a truvelo flash, as they face into your eyes they use an infra red flash that you will not notice unless you look right into the camera.

Wrong, no Truvelo in the UK uses an infra red flash, it's only type approved to use a visible flash with a magenta filter.
facade
QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 20:17) *
QUOTE (facade @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 19:28) *
You won't see a truvelo flash, as they face into your eyes they use an infra red flash that you will not notice unless you look right into the camera.

Wrong, no Truvelo in the UK uses an infra red flash, it's only type approved to use a visible flash with a magenta filter.



I stand corrected then, but you still won't see it unless you look at the camera when it flashes. If it were highly visible, people would be knocking the cameras down and complaining that they were "blinded" and "disorientated" by the flash in their eyes.
morrisman
QUOTE (facade @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 23:21) *
QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 20:17) *
QUOTE (facade @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 19:28) *
You won't see a truvelo flash, as they face into your eyes they use an infra red flash that you will not notice unless you look right into the camera.

Wrong, no Truvelo in the UK uses an infra red flash, it's only type approved to use a visible flash with a magenta filter.



I stand corrected then, but you still won't see it unless you look at the camera when it flashes. If it were highly visible, people would be knocking the cameras down and complaining that they were "blinded" and "disorientated" by the flash in their eyes.


I can assure you they are really quite bright, the car in front of me set one off only today and it very obviously flashed. No cars crashed as a result.
peterguk
QUOTE (facade @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 23:21) *
If it were highly visible, people would be knocking the cameras down and complaining that they were "blinded" and "disorientated" by the flash in their eyes.


Have seen several flash the car in front of me. Very obvious even in broad daylight.
Logician
Yes, they are very bright.
Benny.T
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 18:21) *
Not sure why you are so coy about naming the driver when you (well your GF) has a legal obligation to. I assume you were driving though?



Well I've seen several times on these forums people admitting it was them so I don't want to admit it was me... hence referring to 'the driver'

I wanted to see the photo evidence to make sure everything was in order before accepting the course; I don't particularly fancy it if there was an error made but who knows

My gf is being stroppy and has just sent it off naming the driver anyways so looks like I'll just have to accept it without questioning :/

Very strange, as I've been past that one many a time and where there are blatant lines on the other side of the road, everyone thinks that the camera doesn't work on the side we were on and therefore they go fast pretty quick. Must have been turned on quite recently...
The Rookie
depending on the type of camera, but they often have more boxes than cameras so move the very expensive camera around between the boxes....
Hassan2015
The truvello can spin around and catch motorist either way. They are designed to catch the photos from front rather than rear like the gatso.

So if you see one facing you, regardles of which side of the road, it is catching people approaching it.

You will normally see 3 lines on the road ( sensors) that measure the speed as you go over them.
The Rookie
There are the sensor lines and (just black tar) and three white check lines.
thisisntme
QUOTE (Benny.T @ Fri, 31 Jul 2015 - 09:11) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 18:21) *
Not sure why you are so coy about naming the driver when you (well your GF) has a legal obligation to. I assume you were driving though?



Well I've seen several times on these forums people admitting it was them so I don't want to admit it was me... hence referring to 'the driver'

I wanted to see the photo evidence to make sure everything was in order before accepting the course; I don't particularly fancy it if there was an error made but who knows

My gf is being stroppy and has just sent it off naming the driver anyways so looks like I'll just have to accept it without questioning :/




I don't blame her personally. If she doesn't respond she gets 6 points and very expensive insurance for 5 years. Any defence is separate to the S172 in any case so delaying the S172 unnecessarily won't help you.
BaggieBoy
QUOTE (Hassan2015 @ Sun, 2 Aug 2015 - 10:31) *
The truvello can spin around and catch motorist either way.

You make it sound like it rotates as part of normal operation, it doesn't. It can be manually turned around when being attended to.
Pete D
You will get your NIP/S172 so you can ask for photo's then.
http://www.wmsafetycameras.co.uk/cameras_w...ie=FixedTruvelo
Is how truvelo cameras work. Note they can be rear facing as well. Pete D
Hassan2015
QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Sun, 2 Aug 2015 - 12:50) *
QUOTE (Hassan2015 @ Sun, 2 Aug 2015 - 10:31) *
The truvello can spin around and catch motorist either way.

You make it sound like it rotates as part of normal operation, it doesn't. It can be manually turned around when being attended to.

Sorry, thats exactly what I meant. It doesn't turn around randomly. It is turned around by someone manually.


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