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Mli33d
Hi All,

Sorry if this has been asked already - I did do a search just in case but may have overlooked it.

Just wanted to get some advice on a PCN which I received after I parked my car the night before but did not see the suspended bay sign as I crossed the road to go home. The sign was near the ground below the cars further up the road.

Annoyingly, I had even asked my wife to go past the car the next morning on her way to work as I was paranoid about the car after my wing mirror had been damaged in the same location a couple of years ago - unfortunately she must've missed the sign also. I only chose to park there having dropped my little one off at home as there was nothing closer.

Is there any criteria for the signage to be clear? I attach the PCN and pics.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Kindest Regards,
Mad Mick V
I think Dancing Dad might have a PATAS reference for a recent success. This one got dropped:-

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1063495

Mick
DancingDad
Yes there is a requirement for signs to be clear.
Judging by the look of the first photo with the sign almost at ground level behind the door of the Murphy Van and the 4th where you can see the van door and get a good idea how low the sign was... they fail
Mad Mick V
The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996

Traffic signs

18.—(1) Where an order relating to any road has been made, the order making authority shall take such steps as are necessary to secure—

(a) before the order comes into force, the placing on or near the road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order making authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to persons using the road;

(b) the maintenance of such signs for so long as the order remains in force; and

© in a case where the order revokes, amends or alters the application of a previous order, the removal or replacement of existing traffic signs as the authority considers requisite to avoid confusion to road users by signs being left in the wrong positions.


I would write to the Council and ask, given the official photos, whether, as the appropriate authority, it believes the traffic sign (the suspension sign) was placed in such a requisite position to ensure that adequate information as to the effect of the order was made available to persons using the road. Remember a traffic sign is supposed to be recognisable by a driver using the road and before stopping.

Traffic signs have to be "adequate" and if they are not the Council is on shaky ground.

Mick
Mli33d
Thank you all for the responses and support - It looks hopeful.

Sorry if this is a stupid question but should I take a softer approach asking them? or a stronger approach telling them while quoting regulations and case references?

Thanks again,
DancingDad

QUOTE (Mli33d @ Wed, 29 Jul 2015 - 19:10) *
Thank you all for the responses and support - It looks hopeful.

Sorry if this is a stupid question but should I take a softer approach asking them? or a stronger approach telling them while quoting regulations and case references?

Thanks again,


Personally I'd take the softly approach but really it is opinion, not definitive as to which is best
There is always time to quote regs and acts later.

This one is on shaky ground for the council as Mick says.
There is a perfectly good restriction sign on the bay, they put a suspension sign on it.
Which then drops to floor level.
Does the CEO think Ah, we have a problem, fix or report the sign for repair.
Nope, they serve a PCN and take photos of the dodgy sign!

Beggars belief really
Incandescent
I would go in "softish" but you need a hint of steel in it as the sign is very badly placed. Of course it may have started much higher and the wind has blown it down, but that's why CEOs should report these things but don't, mainly because they are usually employed by contractors on incentivised contracts who incentivise their CEO employees.
John U.K.
Use MMV's advice in post #4 as thhe basis of your challenge
QUOTE
I would write to the Council and ask, given the official photos, whether, as the appropriate authority, it believes the traffic sign (the suspension sign) was placed in such a requisite position to ensure that adequate information as to the effect of the order was made available to persons using the road. Remember a traffic sign is supposed to be recognisable by a driver using the road and before stopping.


At this stage you are trying to persuade them to cancel.

(I am assuming your are still at the discount stage --- the PCN has not yet appeared --- please post asap
Photo or scan. see http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858&st=0
for how to do it. I use Tinypic for stage 2 with no problems.

Redact/obscure personal details, PCN no. Reg No.
LEAVE IN all dates/times; precise location, Contravention code and description.)
hcandersen
The sign does not refer to "whole bay" outside nos. ......, it refers to 'outside number 109 to 115'.

OP, does the parking place extend beyond these numbers and, if so, how would a motorist know which part of the bay was suspended?
Mli33d
Hi All,

Apologies for the delay - I was lazily relying on email notification of new posts rather than checking back here.

See attached PCN with info removed as advised.

I went back yesterday to check 'outside number 109 to 115' and the bay cover those doors - I agree a simple "whole of bay" would have been clearer.

Most interestingly is that the sign has been fixed and another now added to the lamp post next to where my car was parked! Should I mention this in my challenge?

Thanks again,
DancingDad
Will do no harm to mention that on visiting the sight to check suspension details that you noticed that the low sign had been fixed higher up the post and that a new sign had been added. Both actions clearly indicating that the signage when your PCN was served was inadequate.
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