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css81
Hi,
I have had to pay a hefty amount for retrieving my car after it was towed away. The facts are as below:

1. My car was parked on an unmarked stretch (no yellow lines) on a road where there are usually no parking restrictions (at any time, weekdays or weekends).
2. I had verified this with the council well before using that stretch to park and they had confirmed in writing (email) that it does not fall within the Controlled Parking Zone and therefore parking is permitted subject to compliance with any local parking restriction such as yellow lines, loading/unloading etc.
3. The council put up a temporary parking suspension notice that came into effect on a Monday at 7 AM (7AM to 4PM for a period of 2 weeks). I do not know when or where the suspension notice was put up. I had parked there a few days earlier, when there was no notice around.
4. Two days later (Wed morning), a PCN was issued and the car towed away. The time difference between the PCN issue time and the towing away (as per the Vehicle Removal Receipt) was 4 minutes.
(I hadn’t visited the car between the Monday and Wednesday and wasn’t aware of the notice).
5. The 6 pictures available with the council as evidence span a timeframe of 2 minutes, starting at the same time as that of the PCN issue.
6. One of these pictures shows the relevant parking suspension (image link attached).
7. The parking was not in contravention of any other parking rules.
8. I did not visit the parking spot until 19 days after the towing away. On not finding the car there, I ran a car trace and discovered that it had been towed away and was at a car pound.
9. There had been no notification in the meantime of the towing away.
10. Due to the substantial time delay, I had to pay a very large sum (full Penalty Charge, Removal Fee and a whopping Storage Charge at £40 per day after the first 48 hours of the towing) to get my car released from the car pound.
11. I received the following documents while retrieving the car
a. The PCN
b. The Vehicle Removal Receipt
c. A form for representations against removal of the vehicle
d. Receipts of the payment that I had to make
12. I was advised that I had 28 days from the day of retrieving the car to make a representation/ challenge with the council.

The stretch where my car was parked is used by a lot of drivers for long-term parking. The pictures show that there were quite a few cars parked around mine at the time of towing, suggesting that there were lots of others unaware of the parking suspension (and also that the council probably made a killing out of this “parking suspension”).

It seems ridiculous that a council can put up a temporary parking suspension, tow away a car and let the storage cost mount without any obligations to notify the owner (by email or paper).
Even if the council is authorised to tow a car away under such circumstances, a notification would have allowed me to pay the reduced Penalty Charge and the total cost (including the storage cost) would have been a fraction of the current damage.

It has been about 2 weeks since I have collected the car and I have another 2 weeks remaining to file a representation/challenge with the council. I would be very grateful for any advise and help in this matter.

Many thanks.

P.S.: Apologies for the long post. This is my first post here and as per forum advice, I have “cleaned” the images heavily (including exact location, dates and times) and have tried to include all relevant details above. I am attaching only 1 of the 6 pictures that are available with the council. I am happy to provide any further information (or pictures etc.) as required.
hcandersen
Without the photos etc. we're blind and can't really assist. We must know the legal basis for the restriction and where and when notices were displayed.

As an aside, if you use the highway as a quasi-garage, then this sort of problem could arise.

You parked 'some days earlier' than Monday and didn't revisit until 19 days after the Wednesday, a gap of at least 3-4weeks.

You might not be required to check your vehicle regularly, but neither is it a defence that you didn't.

Mad Mick V
+1

Three things jump out:-

  1. If you parked before the warning notice or the restrictions came into effect you cannot be culpable;
  2. The contravention appears to relate to a road closure rather than a bay suspension which would be a different code;
  3. An immediate tow suggests the Council regarded your vehicle as being an obstruction.
Further to the above does the Council maintain a suspension log which would show your VRM when the notice went up (i.e. vehicles already parked)?

If you could provide the GSV for where you parked that would be a start.




Mick
hcandersen
And the full details of the notice which purportedly brought this restriction into effect.
css81
Guys, thanks for your time, appreciate it. Apologies for not posting more information at the outset, the forum guidance had confused me to an extent about how much information is advisable on the forum.

Mick,

Many thanks for your suggestions regarding the GSV and the council records. I have discovered a few more details -

Information from the council website:

1) The first mention of it seems to be on a public notices list as of 22nd of May (This is as per the website. I have no way of knowing when it was actually posted on the website and when the actual sign went up on the road).

Link to page: http://www.haringey.gov.uk/news-and-events...-notices-may-15
Link to exact post: http://www.haringey.gov.uk/sites/haringeyg...17-20150518.pdf

The relevant one is the one for Ashley Road. This also provides the reason for the suspension.

2) In addition, the council has a parking bay suspension list
Link: http://www.haringey.gov.uk/environment-and...bay-suspensions

(excel sheet towards the bottom of the page)

3) I could not find anything online for suspension records (vehicles already parked when notice went up). Will give them a call tomorrow to check and provide an update.

4) GSV link: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.592333,-0...33;8i6656?hl=en

5) Links to images provided by the council: At the end of the post.

On working out dates, it seems that I had parked my car there around the middle of May, i.e., I did not visit it for 2 months. The suspension notification was definitely not up by then.

Would really appreciate any further recommendations on how I should proceed.

hcandersen,

It wasn't garaged on a highway and I didn't imply that my delay was a defence.

I don't know if the towing was necessary and if the way it was conducted was legitimate. Even if it was, had the council notified me after the car was towed away, I could have retrieved it at the lower penalty rate and paid much less in storage cost.

My key question is: As citizens and drivers, contact information for us is quite easily available (combining the information available to the council and DVLA). In the past, a PCN generated by an automatic parking cameras in a council far away has found its way to me within two days of the contravention. Is there no obligation on the part of the council to inform the owner of a car that it has been towed away, instead of just waiting around quietly, blissfully listening to the cash registers ringing away?

Would appreciate any productive suggestions about how I may deal with this situation.

Images:













Incandescent
There is no legal obligation for councils to advise motorists their car has been towed.

Also the only person they could contact would be the keeper on the V5 DVLA document, unless the car was subject to a parking permit scheme, when many councils do make some effort to advise on suspensions using the permit-holder's details. I am really quite astonished that you parked up your car and didn't even go to look at it to for months on end. In London this is very, very, misguided as there is a lot of activity that requires street closures and parking suspensions, so if you carry on like this, you will likely get towed often. The only safe place is off-road parking.

The good news is you have paid all there is to pay, so its now a no-brainer to take them all the way to London Tribunals, but the only possible statutory grounds I can think of is "the penalty exceeded the relevant amount in the circumstances of the case". The adjudicator might agree with you that the storage charges are excessive. The only other avenue is the date they put up the suspension (or road closure) notices. If your car was there when they did that they should have just repositioned it close by, but again, are under no legal obligation to do so, other than their common law duty to act fairly and proportionately.
hcandersen
The schedule on the website states:

The provisions of the Orders shall apply only at such times and as directed
by traffic signs



None of the photos shows a traffic sign. It might be that what's missing from the top of the photos resolves this, but I somehow doubt it.

IMO, you should at least make reps on the basis that the contravention did not occur because the council did not place specified or authorised traffic signs which the council acknowledge were required to bring the temporary restrictions into effect.. and include the website link.
i need help
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 29 Jul 2015 - 09:51) *
The schedule on the website states:

The provisions of the Orders shall apply only at such times and as directed
by traffic signs



None of the photos shows a traffic sign. It might be that what's missing from the top of the photos resolves this, but I somehow doubt it.

IMO, you should at least make reps on the basis that the contravention did not occur because the council did not place specified or authorised traffic signs which the council acknowledge were required to bring the temporary restrictions into effect.. and include the website link.



The sign has the times on it 7 - 16.00- what else do want? A metal sign on a pole? Get real.

However the TMO also says no stopping which is not on the sign so the sign does not convey the restriction, that should be enough?

Email the council and ask for the suspension order.
css81
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Wed, 29 Jul 2015 - 10:30) *
There is no legal obligation for councils to advise motorists their car has been towed.

Also the only person they could contact would be the keeper on the V5 DVLA document, unless the car was subject to a parking permit scheme, when many councils do make some effort to advise on suspensions using the permit-holder's details. I am really quite astonished that you parked up your car and didn't even go to look at it to for months on end. In London this is very, very, misguided as there is a lot of activity that requires street closures and parking suspensions, so if you carry on like this, you will likely get towed often. The only safe place is off-road parking.

The good news is you have paid all there is to pay, so its now a no-brainer to take them all the way to London Tribunals, but the only possible statutory grounds I can think of is "the penalty exceeded the relevant amount in the circumstances of the case". The adjudicator might agree with you that the storage charges are excessive. The only other avenue is the date they put up the suspension (or road closure) notices. If your car was there when they did that they should have just repositioned it close by, but again, are under no legal obligation to do so, other than their common law duty to act fairly and proportionately.



I am the registered owner and keeper of the car, so the V5 DVLA document has my details. Thanks for your suggestions regarding the penalty exceeding relevant amount and the part about repositioning. These will help a lot.

Look forward to any further suggestions.
Mad Mick V
OP you are being shy with the dates ---we need to know date of contravention and date you got the vehicle from the pound. You only have a limited period to submit an appeal and this deadline is critical.

If you have a better photo of the sign (in its entirety) that would help us determine if it is legal. Also we are dealing with an extensive stretch of road ---were there repeat signs every so often?

The legislation which needs to be considered is :- http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/26/contents

Given your comments the extent of your outlay is £800+.

The Council's parking code indicates a contravention code 02 can be towed immediately.

This type of restriction needs to be advertised in the press so you may wish to investigate this.

Subject to other members views, the principal appeal point IMO is that your vehicle was in situ when the restrictions came into force. You did not enter a parking bay whilst the suspension signs were in place and therefore cannot be culpable. Neither are you at fault if the Council erected signs without your knowledge or took no steps to inform me by leaflets or letters. The vehicle had been in this position for at least ???? days prior to the suspension coming into effect.

In addition to this there is no legal obligation to check your vehicle regularly to determine if other restrictions might or might not have been applied to the parking space.

This would not be pleading mitigating circumstances but providing compelling reasons why the PCN should be invalidated.

Mick
css81
QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Wed, 29 Jul 2015 - 12:55) *
OP you are being shy with the dates ---we need to know date of contravention and date you got the vehicle from the pound. You only have a limited period to submit an appeal and this deadline is critical.

If you have a better photo of the sign (in its entirety) that would help us determine if it is legal. Also we are dealing with an extensive stretch of road ---were there repeat signs every so often?

The legislation which needs to be considered is :- http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/26/contents

Given your comments the extent of your outlay is £800+.

The Council's parking code indicates a contravention code 02 can be towed immediately.

This type of restriction needs to be advertised in the press so you may wish to investigate this.

Subject to other members views, the principal appeal point IMO is that your vehicle was in situ when the restrictions came into force. You did not enter a parking bay whilst the suspension signs were in place and therefore cannot be culpable. Neither are you at fault if the Council erected signs without your knowledge or took no steps to inform me by leaflets or letters. The vehicle had been in this position for at least ???? days prior to the suspension coming into effect.

In addition to this there is no legal obligation to check your vehicle regularly to determine if other restrictions might or might not have been applied to the parking space.

This would not be pleading mitigating circumstances but providing compelling reasons why the PCN should be invalidated.

Mick


Thanks Mick.

Date the notice came into effect: 22 June 2015
Date of contravention: 24 June 2015 (the date of the PCN and when it was towed).
Date of parking: 15 May 2015.
Date car retrieved from the pound: 13 July 2015.

So the car was parked there for over 5 weeks before the contravention.

I was advised at the car pound that I have 4 weeks to appeal, i.e., until the 10th of Aug (I do not have this in writing). I intend to put in the appeal well before that.

The outlay is £900+.

I have no further pictures of the notice or any knowledge of where other notices may have been placed. By the time I went there to check on the 13th of July, all notices had come off as the suspension period was over. The only picture is the one I have posted. This is one of the pictures the council has against my PCN.

Thanks for your suggestions about the points I could mention.

Would be grateful for any further suggestions.
i need help
email the council and ask for ALL their photos.
Mad Mick V
These two cases might help the OP formulate a response esp as regards a "warning":-

Appellant:
Authority: Kensington and Chelsea
VRM:
PCN:
Contravention Date: 27 Nov 2012
Contravention Time: 08:48
Contravention Location: Abbotsbury Road
Penalty Amount: £130.00
Contravention: Parked in a suspended bay/part of bay
Decision Date: 04 Feb 2013
Adjudicator: Edward Houghton
Appeal Decision: Allowed
Direction: cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and refund the penalty charge and the release charges paid.
Reasons: The Appellant's vehicle was left lawfully parked but while he was away in America the bay was suspended and the vehicle removed. A vehicle that is lawfully parked remains lawfully parked unless and until reasonable notice is given that the situation is about to change . If reasonable notice is given the fact that the motorist fails to receive it by virtue of extended absence will not avail him.

In the present case six days notice was given. Although longer than the Council's three day minimum notified to permit holders, this is less than a week, the sort of period permit holders might often be away. Although the fact that residents are informed that suspensions may occur at this short notice is a factor to be taken into account in determining what is reasonable it is not conclusive; and a Council giving less that a weeks notice of works which on the face of it must have been planned some time in advance should be in a position to explain why it was not possible to give more notice that that. The Council in its case summary does not provide such an explanation and the suspension record does not suggest that these were emergency works. On the evidence I m not persuaded that only six days notice was reasonable in the circumstances of this case . It follows that the vehicle remained lawfully parked and the Appeal is allowed.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2015/713.html

Mick
i need help
24/06/15 free
25/06/15 free
26/06/15 £40.00
27/06/15 £40.00
28/06/15 £40.00
29/06/15 £40.00
30/06/15 £40.00
01/07/15 £40.00
02/07/15 £40.00
03/07/15 £40.00
04/07/15 £40.00
05/07/15 £40.00
06/07/15 £40.00
07/07/15 £40.00
08/07/15 £40.00
09/07/15 £40.00
10/07/15 £40.00
11/07/15 £40.00
12/07/15 £40.00
13/07/15 £40.00

Storage £720.00
PCN £130.00

£850.00
Incandescent
QUOTE (i need help @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 11:00) *
24/06/15 free
25/06/15 free
26/06/15 £40.00
27/06/15 £40.00
28/06/15 £40.00
29/06/15 £40.00
30/06/15 £40.00
01/07/15 £40.00
02/07/15 £40.00
03/07/15 £40.00
04/07/15 £40.00
05/07/15 £40.00
06/07/15 £40.00
07/07/15 £40.00
08/07/15 £40.00
09/07/15 £40.00
10/07/15 £40.00
11/07/15 £40.00
12/07/15 £40.00
13/07/15 £40.00

Storage £720.00
PCN £130.00

£850.00

Isn't there a towing fee as well ?
i need help
Yeah, £200

so £950, he put £950+


Need to see the receipt amount.
css81
QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 07:37) *
These two cases might help the OP formulate a response esp as regards a "warning":-

Appellant:
Authority: Kensington and Chelsea
VRM:
PCN:
Contravention Date: 27 Nov 2012
Contravention Time: 08:48
Contravention Location: Abbotsbury Road
Penalty Amount: £130.00
Contravention: Parked in a suspended bay/part of bay
Decision Date: 04 Feb 2013
Adjudicator: Edward Houghton
Appeal Decision: Allowed
Direction: cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and refund the penalty charge and the release charges paid.
Reasons: The Appellant's vehicle was left lawfully parked but while he was away in America the bay was suspended and the vehicle removed. A vehicle that is lawfully parked remains lawfully parked unless and until reasonable notice is given that the situation is about to change . If reasonable notice is given the fact that the motorist fails to receive it by virtue of extended absence will not avail him.

In the present case six days notice was given. Although longer than the Council's three day minimum notified to permit holders, this is less than a week, the sort of period permit holders might often be away. Although the fact that residents are informed that suspensions may occur at this short notice is a factor to be taken into account in determining what is reasonable it is not conclusive; and a Council giving less that a weeks notice of works which on the face of it must have been planned some time in advance should be in a position to explain why it was not possible to give more notice that that. The Council in its case summary does not provide such an explanation and the suspension record does not suggest that these were emergency works. On the evidence I m not persuaded that only six days notice was reasonable in the circumstances of this case . It follows that the vehicle remained lawfully parked and the Appeal is allowed.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2015/713.html

Mick



Many thanks Mick. Appreciate it.


As some of you suggested, I sent an email to the council asking for additional photos, a suspension record for when the notice went up and details of any press releases. I received an automated response which said that no queries are entertained unless a representation/ challenge has already been made and a relevant reference no. quoted.

I managed to get through to the council over the phone. The summary of the conversation is as below:

1) No suspension records are provided prior to challenge/representation (confirmed that there is nothing online) - these are only investigated when a representation/ challenge is made.
2) Similarly, no additional photographic evidence is provided prior to challenge/representation (except the ones already on the website that I have posted).
3) There are no email/ sms notification system for suspensions etc.
4) As per the personnel on the call, there is nothing published in newspapers (not sure if this is actually the case or if that was just her opinion)
5) Notices are meant to go up a week before on the street where the suspension is coming in place (as I have mentioned earlier, I can’t be sure if this happened). This, according to her, is the only method people are notified.
6) I was told that the best way to go forward was to make a representation and allow the council to investigate.

Based on this, I think the best course for me is to put in a representation summarising suggestions I have received here.

I will wait a couple of days before I do that.

Any further guidance in the mean time would be much appreciated.

Thank you all for your time and help.
i need help
the council will not refund you, so make reps asap.

then appeal to patas.
Incandescent
QUOTE (i need help @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 18:03) *
the council will not refund you, so make reps asap.

then appeal to patas.

Don't hesitate, appeal !! You have paid all there is to pay, and could get some or all of it back by appealing. If you lose there is nothing more to pay. This really, really, is a no-brainer
css81
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 20:32) *
QUOTE (i need help @ Thu, 30 Jul 2015 - 18:03) *
the council will not refund you, so make reps asap.

then appeal to patas.

Don't hesitate, appeal !! You have paid all there is to pay, and could get some or all of it back by appealing. If you lose there is nothing more to pay. This really, really, is a no-brainer



I definitely will do that.

By the way, I have no knowledge of procedures should the council refuse to make any refunds (or only decide to make partial refunds).

Any guidance on this (including links etc. with details) would be very useful.

Thanks a ton guys.
John U.K.
QUOTE
By the way, I have no knowledge of procedures should the council refuse to make any refunds (or only decide to make partial refunds).


Should the Adjudicator find in your favour and cancel the PCN, he will direct the Council to refund to you all monies you have paid.

I think I am right in saying that if he finds the the PCN correctly served, but the towaway not correctly executed or disproportionate, he will direct the refund of all but the initial discounted PCN.

If he finds in your favour and you feel the Council have acted vexatiously or frivolously, you have the opportunity (within seven days) to apply for costs.

As Incandescent says, you lose nothing but your time and effort in appealing: you may have everything refunded.
hcandersen
We need to get representations made to the authority before we worry about refunds made under direction by the adjudicator.

OP, you need to post a draft of your reps here.

The 28-day period ends on 9 August.

I suggest you identify and focus on the main lines of argument for your reps and leave what happens if matters until later.

As regards the PCN, as you haven't seen the order (and neither are you likely to before you make reps) then you're left with what you know and this is what is in evidence on the ground and on the council's website.

On the ground: no traffic signs as defined by section 64 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.

Online: a notice if intention to make an order under section 14(1) of the Act, which order apparently requires the placing of traffic signs at the location without which none of the provisions of the order are brought into effect. This is the wording in the notice and the objective facts are that there do not appear to be any traffic signs, as defined, in the authority's available evidence. It's the authority's task to respond to this argument and any rebuttal should provide a copy of the order and proof of signs.

The notice also refers to 'stopping' which is relevant in 3 ways:
1. this is not mentioned in the suspension notice,
2. if the order actually refers to 'no stopping', then this reinforces the issue regarding the council's failure to place traffic signs, and
3. it conveys the impression that these orders are churned out in large numbers. Those with less knowledge of the internal workings of a council might think that orders, siting of signs and enforcement are all part of a single, coherent structure. Yeah! The officers who write the orders probably don't even know how they're enforced and vice-versa as regards enforcement. Do not assume that everything is hunk-dory, get the authority to prove it.
css81
Guys, the story just got worse.

I received an NTO today (image below), which indicates that a separate PCN was issued on my car the day before the incident discussed above (i.e. on the 23rd of July) at 11:20.
This PCN was not delivered to me by the car pound and I had no knowledge of this until I received the NTO today. The NTO is asking me to pay up an additional amount of £130 over and above the £950+ that I have already paid.

So the same car parked at the same spot was issued with two separate PCNs on consecutive days and then towed away and no intimation of the same was sent to the owner, i.e. myself. The first PCN was not made available to the owner and the council is asking for separate payments.

The NTO image and the evidence against this previous PCN are posted below.

I will be challenging both tomorrow/day-after mentioning all the details. The council's website requires that I challenge each PCN separately.

Any guidance as to any other steps I need to take or any additional points I need to bear in mind would be much appreciated.

Also, the council provides a guidance page about appeals, but you'll see that the link to the same leads to a page which is a web domain sales page. I am sure I will receive information from the council about how to appeal further if the challenges are rejected. But any additional information would be most helpful.

Once again, many thanks for your time and suggestions.








Incandescent
Hmm, I think the council have committed a procedural impropriety here. You were towed and surely the first PCN is the trigger for the tow, not the second, In addition, as the car had not been moved, the second PCN should not have been issued. So you need to appeal the first PCN, but when you get to the adjudicators, you can request both PCNs are dealt with together as it is a single contravention. Others here will probably give you more detailed advice, but the council have behaved very badly (as most of them do)
PASTMYBEST
have a read of this thread, also two PCN's and towed


http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=98923
css81
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 31 Jul 2015 - 19:42) *
have a read of this thread, also two PCN's and towed


http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=98923


Very useful. Thanks a ton!
Mad Mick V
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 31 Jul 2015 - 19:21) *
Hmm, I think the council have committed a procedural impropriety here. You were towed and surely the first PCN is the trigger for the tow, not the second, In addition, as the car had not been moved, the second PCN should not have been issued. So you need to appeal the first PCN, but when you get to the adjudicators, you can request both PCNs are dealt with together as it is a single contravention. Others here will probably give you more detailed advice, but the council have behaved very badly (as most of them do)


If this can be classed as a continuous contravention it is usually the case that the 2nd PCN is cancelled because you cannot be penalised twice for the same "offence". This throws up the issue of the 2nd PCN justifying the tow; in other words there must be a valid PCN before any towing procedures are brought into effect.

If that PCN is invalid then the Council IMO is on shaky ground regarding the legitimacy of the tow especially if the 2nd PCN is noted on the tow documentation (vehicle removal receipt, reps form and payment receipt).

Sometimes a Council can choose which PCN might offer the stronger enforcement case but in the circumstances there is room to argue an illegal tow because they appear to have chosen the 2nd PCN.

Needs a bit more thought and other members views.

Otherwise same old-----you were in situ when the restrictions came into force so cannot be culpable.

Mick
css81
Thanks Mick. I can confirm that the vehicle removal receipt does reference the second PCN.
hcandersen
You lucky person.

The first penalty should have been demanded by the authority at the discount rate when you paid the 'relevant charges' to recover your car, therefore the amount now demanded 'exceeds the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case' which IMO will be successful grounds of appeal whether with the authority or the adjudicator. That disposes of penalty number 1.

As regards the second penalty, in addition to all the other grounds you have, you now add that it too exceeds the amount applicable etc.. because the contravention was continuous and therefore only a single penalty may be demanded, in this case PCN 1 which as said above should be cancelled.

I can see no point in debating among ourselves whether the authority or adjudicator would accept 'continuous contravention' because it would be unproductive. You do not lose marks for making unsuccessful reps and you are already embarked on an appeal.
css81
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sat, 1 Aug 2015 - 12:40) *
You lucky person.

The first penalty should have been demanded by the authority at the discount rate when you paid the 'relevant charges' to recover your car, therefore the amount now demanded 'exceeds the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case' which IMO will be successful grounds of appeal whether with the authority or the adjudicator. That disposes of penalty number 1.

As regards the second penalty, in addition to all the other grounds you have, you now add that it too exceeds the amount applicable etc.. because the contravention was continuous and therefore only a single penalty may be demanded, in this case PCN 1 which as said above should be cancelled.

I can see no point in debating among ourselves whether the authority or adjudicator would accept 'continuous contravention' because it would be unproductive. You do not lose marks for making unsuccessful reps and you are already embarked on an appeal.


Very much so. I shall post my proposed challenges for each PCN by tomorrow for any amendments/ suggestions from members here. I can then file it by Mon/ Tue, well within the required timeframe.
DancingDad
I would include the continuous contravention.
As a simple that they cannot charge twice for the same contravention and this is certainly only one.
i need help
This sort of case simply adds weight to Bogsy argument.

By making the OP pay before release the council has shot itself in the foot.

DancingDad
QUOTE (i need help @ Sat, 1 Aug 2015 - 20:17) *
This sort of case simply adds weight to Bogsy argument.

By making the OP pay before release the council has shot itself in the foot.

Agree with that totally.
If they are justified in forcing payment of the PCN on collection they should have claimed both.
If they are not justified on one then they are not on either.
css81
I have drafted the challenges for the two PCNs/ NTO.
Any thoughts and suggestions as to points that may need to be added, the length of the drafts, relevance and clarity of arguments would be most welcome.

I intend to send these through latest by Tue.

Thanks once again for the time and suggestions. It has been very useful.

Draft Challenge for PCN 1 (referred to as PCN xxx):

Dear Sir/ Madam

This is regarding the NTO related to PCN xxx dated 30 July 2015 that I received on 31 July. I note from the NTO that the alleged contravention (Code: 02) is that my car was parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/ unloading restrictions are in force. I also note from the photographic evidence provided on the council’s website that the restriction was due a temporary parking suspension notice effective between 22 June 2015 and 03 July 2015 between 0700 and 1600 hours.

I would like to bring certain facts to the attention of the council.

As a mitigating circumstance, I would like to point out that I had left my vehicle lawfully parked on Ashley Road. At the time of parking, well before the date of the PCN, there was no notice of a parking or loading/unloading restriction in the area. The council should be able to confirm this from the suspension record, i.e., the list of cars already parked there when the temporary parking suspension notice went up. I was busy with work related commitments and did not need the use of my car for a while.

Moreover, a second PCN (no. yyy, which I am challenging separately), was issued for my car just a day after the PCN xxx was issued. It was issued at the same spot, presumably for the same alleged contravention. Additionally, my car was also towed away. On 13 July, I discovered that my car was missing. On figuring out that it had been towed, I collected the car from the car pound, paying a huge total release amount of £££, including the full payment of PCN yyy, towing costs and storage cost (Vehicle removal receipt, which references PCN yyy attached). Please note that no attempt was made to inform me of the towing and I was thereby denied the opportunity to collect the car at the earliest and minimize the storage costs payable.

To add to that, at the time of collecting the car, I was only handed PCN yyy. PCN xxx was not presented to me or attached to my car at that time. I was also not given the opportunity to pay the discounted rate on it. In fact, I did not know about it until I received the NTO on 31 July.

In summary, I am being charged twice for the same alleged continuous contravention and two separate payments are being demanded for an alleged parking offence case where I was actually lawfully parked before the temporary suspension came into force. Additionally, I am being asked to pay a second penalty charge that was not brought to my notice at the time of collection, after already having paid an amount disproportionately high to what is applicable in the circumstances of the case.

In light of the above, I would request you to kindly consider cancelling the PCN no. xxx and the NTO.

I look forward to hearing back at the earliest.

Many thanks.


Draft Challenge for PCN 2 (referred to as PCN yyy):

Dear Sir/ Madam

This is regarding the towing away of my car (Reg no. ……) at 0805 hours on 24 June 2015. The PCN number referenced in the vehicle removal receipt, is yyy issued at 0801 hours on the same date. I note that the PCN was issued for the alleged contravention (Code: 02) that my car was parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/ unloading restrictions are in force. I also note from the photographic evidence provided on the council’s website that the restriction was due a temporary parking suspension notice effective between 22 June 2015 and 03 July 2015 between 0700 and 1600 hours.

I would like to bring certain facts to the attention of the council.

As a mitigating circumstance, I would like to point out that I had left my vehicle lawfully parked on Ashley Road. At the time of parking, well before the date of the PCN, there was no notice of any parking or loading/unloading restrictions in the area. The council should be able to confirm this from the suspension record, i.e., the list of cars already parked there when the temporary parking suspension notice went up. I was busy with work related commitments and did not need the use of my car for a while.

On 13 July, I discovered that my car was missing. On figuring out that it had been towed, I collected the car from the car pound, paying a huge total release amount of £££, including the full payment of PCN yyy, towing costs and storage cost (Vehicle removal receipt, which references PCN yyy attached). Please note that no attempt was made to inform me of the towing and I was thereby denied the opportunity to collect the car at the earliest and minimize the storage costs payable.

It is important to note that a PCN (no. xxx, which I am challenging separately) was issued at the car just a day before the PCN yyy was issued, at the same spot. The photographic evidence shows only one PCN attached to my car at the time of towing.

Thus, the towing was conducted on the basis of PCN yyy, which is, in effect, a second penalty for the same alleged contravention, which is a breach of the common law principle that a person can only be punished once for the same offence. At the time of collecting the car from the car pound, only PCN yyy was presented to me. PCN no. xxx was not presented to me or attached to my car at the time. I only learnt about it from an NTO received on 31 July.

Please note that no attempt was made to inform me of the towing and I was thereby denied the opportunity to collect the car at the earliest and minimize the storage costs payable.

In summary, I am being charged twice for the same alleged continuous contravention and two separate payments are being demanded for an alleged parking offence case where I was actually lawfully parked before the temporary suspension came into force. Additionally, my car was towed on the basis of a PCN that appears to breach the common law principles. To make it worse, the neglect to inform me of the towing has led to the total charges being disproportionately high to what is applicable in the circumstances of the case.

In light of the above, I would request you to kindly consider cancelling the PCN no. xxx and refunding, in its entirety, the penalty charge, towing charge and storage cost that I had to pay to collect my car from the car pound on 13 July (vehicle removal receipt attached).

I look forward to hearing back at the earliest.

Many thanks.
css81
QUOTE (css81 @ Sun, 2 Aug 2015 - 20:22) *
I have drafted the challenges for the two PCNs/ NTO.
Any thoughts and suggestions as to points that may need to be added, the length of the drafts, relevance and clarity of arguments would be most welcome.

I intend to send these through latest by Tue.

Thanks once again for the time and suggestions. It has been very useful.


Hello friends, any suggestions/ advice on the above drafts?

Thanks.


To clarify, here is the post where I have placed the the drafts (2nd on the page)

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t=#entry1098292
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