sniper005
Fri, 10 Jul 2015 - 17:32
Hi All, Long time lurker but first time asker for advice.
On 26 June 2015 my car received a PCN from Britannia in the Waitrose car park in Godalming. The car had been parked in the store car park whilst the driver went shopping at the store. Following the shopping the driver used the in store cafe for a coffee. On exiting the store the driver found the attached PCN stuck to the car. No parking attendant was seen or spoken to. Customer service in the store said they were unable to assist as it was a Britannia matter.
My interpretation of research on Pepipoo seems to indicate that the PCN may be non compliant due to the lack of an issue time and date upon it, or are the details covering the from and to of the parking `offence` sufficient?
The same research seems to indicate that the car park signs are non compliant due to no mention of any terms and conditions or any BPA Logo.
Can anyone tell me if I am thinking along the right lines here? If not, any advice would be gratefully received.
I have not received any Notice to Keeper yet so advice on whether to wait for that or not would also be welcome.
Signs and PCN phots as attached.
Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Thanks all
ManxRed
Fri, 10 Jul 2015 - 18:01
QUOTE (sniper005 @ Fri, 10 Jul 2015 - 18:32)
Customer service in the store said they were unable to assist as it was a Britannia matter.
Which seems to contradict the signs which clearly state that Britannia are managing the parking ON BEHALF OF WAITROSE.
SO it's Waitrose's call, they are clearly the Principal, and Britannia are the Agent.
That sign also says (as does the one in my local Waitrose) that a Parking Charge MAY be issued. Well, will it or won't it? You can't really form much of a contract by stating what MIGHT happen.
kommando
Fri, 10 Jul 2015 - 18:03
The lack of T&C's is fatal as without them there could be no contract, the ticket makes specific mention of T&C's plus the signs but there are no T&C's or mention of their existence on the signs , lack of issue date and time can't see that one being an issue as you can infer it from the info on the ticket.
Use the Waitrose Facebook page, never heard of their stores not taking action before and they are the principle not Brtiannia, you can suggest some staff training.
Wait for the NTK, they will no doubt make other errors.
SchoolRunMum
Sat, 11 Jul 2015 - 20:10
Didn't Britannia go into administration? They are no longer at Brighton Waitys.
Anyway complain to Waitys Head office but don't appeal the thing unless you get a postal Notice to Keeper. At Brighton Waitys they only used to follow up the third one you got; no letters arrived for a first/second PCN. I suspect that was the agreement with the store.
I wonder even, if this is Waitrose staff issuing those tickets themselves. Also at Brighton, I know that half the time the people ticketing were actually Waitys employees, youngsters who hated it - I spoke to them and knew one of them. It was not always Britannia even though the tickets had that heading. So certainly this is an issue for Waitrose to sort out for you.
Let us know if you get a Notice to Keeper in a month. Britannia are easy to beat at POPLA.
BikerPaul
Sat, 11 Jul 2015 - 20:29
QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Sat, 11 Jul 2015 - 21:10)
Didn't Britannia go into administration? They are no longer at Brighton Waitys.
Anyway complain to Waitys Head office but don't appeal the thing unless you get a postal Notice to Keeper. At Brighton Waitys they only used to follow up the third one you got; no letters arrived for a first/second PCN. I suspect that was the agreement with the store.
I wonder even, if this is Waitrose staff issuing those tickets themselves. Also at Brighton, I know that half the time the people ticketing were actually Waitys employees, youngsters who hated it - I spoke to them and knew one of them. It was not always Britannia even though the tickets had that heading. So certainly this is an issue for Waitrose to sort out for you.
Let us know if you get a Notice to Keeper in a month. Britannia are easy to beat at POPLA.
Not only are Waitrose liable, but, because Waitrose is a form of partnership, the person who tells you that Waitrose is not liable is PERSONALLY liable. So insist on their name, and address for service - as a partner they are legally required to provide this to you, and commit a criminal offence if they refuse.
sniper005
Thu, 3 Sep 2015 - 10:01
Click to view attachmentReceived a Notice To Keeper regarding the ticket mentioned in my original post. The ticket was fixed to the car on 28/6/15 and the Notice To Keeper dated 28/8/15. I make that 63 days. Does this mean that as it's over 56 days I am no longer liable as the keeper and that I do not have to name the driver?
Thanks again all,
Sniper
nosferatu1001
Thu, 3 Sep 2015 - 10:10
Even better, they are not even attemptiong to claim POFA2012 Keeper liability
SImple appeal. First class, FREE proof of posting. State the notice to keeper was received outwith the provisions of POFA2012, and the NTK factually does not comply witht eh requirements. Take it up with the driver, and do not contact me again. I consider the matter closed.
ostell
Thu, 3 Sep 2015 - 10:14
Correct. Quick letter to them saying that they have failed to meet the requirements of POFA in that the notice was not delivered within 56 days and therefore they cannot hold you liable. You may also add that any further contact from them, apart from from notification that any claim has been cancelled, can and will be classed as harassment.
ManxRed
Thu, 3 Sep 2015 - 10:31
The letter states that the signs clearly state that (among other things) a parking charge WILL be incurred, but as per your photos they don't state anything of the sort. They also state in the letter that the signs say that Britannia are he creditor, but the signs actually say that Waitrose is the creditor.
However, go with the above 'take it up with the driver'.
Just showing you how flimsy their case/paperwork is.
sniper005
Thu, 10 Sep 2015 - 16:28
Just to keep all you very helpful people updated, letter to Britannia as shown here:
Dear Sir/Madam,
As the registered keeper of the vehicle mentioned in your Notice To Keeper referenced above I wish to appeal this PCN.
S8(5) of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 requires that if you wish to hold the keeper liable the Notice To Keeper must be served no earlier than 29 days and no later than 56 days after the alleged event.
Since the Notice To Keeper is dated 28/08/15 (some 63 days after the alleged event) the keeper may not be held liable.
I am under no compulsion to name the driver.
Please cancel this Parking Charge Notice or issue me with a POPLA code.
Now awaiting reply.
Sniper
dandyman
Thu, 10 Sep 2015 - 16:47
If I were you I'd go back to the store and demand to see the manager, to hell with customer non-services. Fill a trolley with your weekly groceries first, and then demand to see the manager before you go through the checkouts. Have a polite but loud conversation with him/her while standing next to the trolley of unpaid-for shopping. That should focus his/her mind, and if you don't get your way walk out and leave it all there!
Also write to the CEO. You
will get this cancelled.
http://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=b-9070&am...n%20Lewis%20Plc
cabbyman
Thu, 10 Sep 2015 - 17:57
Meantime, have a good look around the forum and start preparing your POPLA appeal in general terms. It will, obviously, need tweeking once you get Britannia's reply but, it wouldn't hurt to get yourself ahead of the game. Post it on her for critique.
sniper005
Thu, 19 Nov 2015 - 12:55
No reply from Britannia so far regarding my appeal (as keeper) following the NTK. Any idea how long they have to reply to me
with either a cancellation or POPLA code?
Cheers all,
Sniper
nosferatu1001
Thu, 19 Nov 2015 - 13:03
Did you get a response from the business?
35 days, acknowledge in 14 days
ManxRed
Thu, 19 Nov 2015 - 14:18
Dear Britannia,
Ref: XXXXX
You have failed to follow your trade body's code of practice that states that you must respond to an appeal within 35 days.
I hereby consider the matter closed.
Regards,
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