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CCJ from Vehicle Control Services - sent to old address, Split from hijacked thread
ben992
post Mon, 29 Dec 2014 - 18:32
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I have only just find out i have a CCJ against my name from Vehicle Control Services. It was sent to an old address and therefore i didn't receive it (I found out about it on my Credit report).

I have received a High Court Writ from an enforcement agent at my current address. Is there any course of action i can take?
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post Mon, 29 Dec 2014 - 18:32
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 29 Dec 2014 - 19:09
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Yes, you can challenge the ccj

In your own thread, however.
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Gan
post Mon, 29 Dec 2014 - 19:14
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You apply for the judment to be set aside

Unfortunately the charges have been raised

https://www.gov.uk/county-court-judgments-c...t-owe-the-money

It's still worth it because, even if you lose later, as long as you pay it's removed from your credit file
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emanresu
post Tue, 30 Dec 2014 - 07:39
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QUOTE
High Court Writ


Thats over £750 so it is worth your while to so it immediately. There are Set Asides every day. About 1 in 10 cases are now getting these revoked.

There is a parallel issue here of the BPA lying to the DVLA when they asked to use Trace. The idea of being allowed to use Trace services was to avoid this. The said that if the PPC could check addresses before court, it would avoid this issues.

Instead they get the CCJ and then use Trace to get it paid. And the DVLA just swallows it.

This post has been edited by emanresu: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 - 07:40
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ben992
post Tue, 30 Dec 2014 - 19:25
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Sorry i didnt realise a new thread had been made on my behalf....

Here is some more information in which i have written in a new thread.

Hi All

I lived in an apartment in my final year as a student. I bought my car up for 5 months (Jan 2014-May-2014) and parked it out side my apartment block. Everybody at this apartment did the same as no other parking was available.

The land was owned by Vehicle Control Services Limited.
After reading online at the time i decided it was best to ignore the first few tickets and as everybody at the apartment was doing the same i didn't think anything else would come from it.

I recently checked my Credit score (Dec 2014) out of interest and found i had a CCJ against my name from August 2014 however it had been sent to an old address that i had moved out in September 2013. I had received other letters at my current address but not a CCJ so therefore i carried on ignoring them.

After research i think the best way to go is to fill in a N244 form and state the CCJ was sent to the wrong address. However i was wondering if anyone could firstly tell me if this is correct advice or is it too late? and secondly do i have a leg to stand on defending this claim as the amount of tickets I've received is over 10

QUOTE (Gan @ Tue, 30 Dec 2014 - 19:06) *
Ben

Could you post this in your original thread ?

Yes, N244 is the only way to deal with this
You must also show that you had a reasonable prospect of defending the claim

Go to the Parking Prankster for the guide to fighting ParkingEye claims
Most of the advice will apply

It's a near certainty that the land wasn't owned by VCS
Out of interest, was their name on any signs ?
They have been known to bring claims for locations where they don't have contracts

The advice to "Ignore" has been out-of-date for more than two years
If you had challenged the tickets at the time and done so properly, VCS would have quickly got the message that it was costing them £30 a time and they would have left your car alone


Thanks for the reply^^^

I think you are correct actually the company who owned the land was Peel.

This post has been edited by ben992: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 - 19:30
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peterguk
post Tue, 30 Dec 2014 - 19:26
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QUOTE (ben992 @ Tue, 30 Dec 2014 - 19:18) *
I ... parked it out side my apartment block.

The land was owned by Vehicle Control Services Limited.


Are you sure VCS own the land?


--------------------
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hoohoo
post Tue, 30 Dec 2014 - 20:49
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To get a set aside you need 2 things
1) A reason why you didn't contest the case in the first place
2) Reasonable prospects of success in a new hearing

1) Will be because the claim went to the wrong address. Most judges will allow this
2) Will be because
a) VCS do not have standing to bring the claim
b) The charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss
c) The signage does not create a contract with the motorist
d) The notices did not comply with the protection of freedoms act, and so keeper liability does not apply.
If you are confident enough to briefly argue these, most judges will allow the set aside
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matt285
post Wed, 31 Dec 2014 - 14:58
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If you received a High Court Writ then you need to contact the Enforcement Agents immediately otherwise you may end up playing a role in the next episode of the Sheriffs wink.gif

I don't know how the High Court works but I have a feeling it is similar to the County Court - in that once enforcement has started you first need to pay the amount due, and then claim it back from VCS after you applied to set aside the judgement.

So on this basis, get in touch with the Enforcement Agents asap to find out and you may need to pay this for the time being. In any case you then also need to apply to set aside the CCJ - there are lots of threads on here about this, but if you want to then I can help you if you send me your email address via PM - we've been getting set asides for lots of CCJs particularly when they were issued on old addresses.
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Gan
post Wed, 31 Dec 2014 - 15:09
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Good point

Can an N244 request two orders, suspension of the bailiff action as well as a set-aside ?

We used to recommend bailiffadviceonline.org for these situations
Has that changed ?
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matt285
post Wed, 31 Dec 2014 - 15:38
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In your N244 you can ask the court to order as many things as you like so I would certainly also ask for an order of "suspension of enforcement pending".

But I don't think that this will happen in time, if the case is already with the HCEOs... hence they need to be contacted as a first call to see - and I have a feeling they will (rightly) say you need to pay us in full, no argument.

I don't know anything about bailiffadviceonline.org - but for starters dealing with County Court Bailiffs is very different from dealing with High Court Enforcement Agents... wink.gif
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anon45
post Wed, 31 Dec 2014 - 22:50
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QUOTE (matt285 @ Wed, 31 Dec 2014 - 14:58) *
If you received a High Court Writ then you need to contact the Enforcement Agents immediately otherwise you may end up playing a role in the next episode of the Sheriffs wink.gif

I don't know how the High Court works but I have a feeling it is similar to the County Court - in that once enforcement has started you first need to pay the amount due, and then claim it back from VCS after you applied to set aside the judgement.

So on this basis, get in touch with the Enforcement Agents asap to find out and you may need to pay this for the time being. In any case you then also need to apply to set aside the CCJ - there are lots of threads on here about this, but if you want to then I can help you if you send me your email address via PM - we've been getting set asides for lots of CCJs particularly when they were issued on old addresses.


As I understand it, based on the following link: http://www.masonbullock.co.uk/can-a-bailif...o-be-set-aside/
once set aside is granted, it is if the CCJ was never issued, and there is no longer any legal basis for enforcement; therefore, there is no need to apply separately for a suspension of the bailiff action.

To quote very briefly from the Mason Bullock website:
QUOTE
What happens to enforcement action if the judgment is set aside?

If the judgment is set aside, all enforcement action must cease to have effect.

This means that the claimant can no longer instruct bailiffs or take any other enforcement action. In many ways, it’s as though the judgment never existed.

However, the bailiffs may continue enforcement action right up until the point the judgment is set aside, and the mere fact an application has been made for a set aside does not itself have a suspensory effect.

Further research suggests that bailiffs must normally give seven clear days notice of an enforcement visit, which should give plenty of time for the OP to get a set aside in the meantime, especially as they do not normally operate on bank holidays, such as tomorrow.

In my opinion, the OP would be most unwise to pay either VCS or the bailiffs, unless there is an imminent danger of goods being seized at that very moment. In this context, the threat of future enforcement action (which is what the OP is currently facing) is less dangerous in practice than actual enforcement action taking place at that instant (such as a car being clamped or towed away).

He/she would be better applying to the court on Friday morning for a set aside, and asking for a set aside hearing as a matter of urgency. In the meantime, he/she should ensure that all doors and windows are locked at all times, that inhabitants do not open the door to strangers, and that his/her car is secure in a garage or otherwise hidden from public view; perhaps, with permission, at a house belonging to a friend or distant neighbour. Furthermore, he/she would, in my view, be unwise to even contact the bailiffs in the interim period, since they will doubtless simply tell the OP to pay up immediately.


This post has been edited by anon45: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 - 23:25
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matt285
post Thu, 1 Jan 2015 - 17:48
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Once again, County Court Bailiffs are not the same as High Court Enforcement Agents and operate under totally different procedures. My advice still stands.
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anon45
post Thu, 1 Jan 2015 - 19:25
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QUOTE (matt285 @ Thu, 1 Jan 2015 - 17:48) *
Once again, County Court Bailiffs are not the same as High Court Enforcement Agents and operate under totally different procedures. My advice still stands.

The underlying law is the same in both cases, as this link, referring specifically to High Court Enforcement Officers, makes clear: http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/Stop-...fficer-HCEO.htm
QUOTE
If your application is successful then enforcement stops and all the fees HCEO are revoked...If no fees have been paid then no enforcement fees are due because the HCEO is only paid through the process of execution.

Once a set aside is granted, the CCJ is nullified and enforcement action must cease. Paying up at this point, in the absence of actual physical seizure of goods, would be very poor advice indeed, and contacting the bailiffs now would also be very unwise, since they just want the OP's money and will say anything to get it. Whilst it is possible in theory to reclaim money from bailiffs following payment, in practice, it is extremely difficult and time consuming, so the OP would be far, far better not paying them in the first place.

The OP needs to get the forms and fee ready, and make an application for set aside first thing tomorrow morning, explaining that the application is urgent owing to the threat of enforcement proceedings. If necessary, the OP should do whatever he or she can within his or her contract of employment to take time off work to deal with this as an urgent emergency.

Once the set aside is granted, then, and, only then, the OP ought to contact the bailiffs to tell them that the set aside has been granted. It may be prudent to provide copies to the bailiffs of the court paperwork granting the set aside.

This post has been edited by anon45: Thu, 1 Jan 2015 - 20:01
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hoohoo
post Fri, 2 Jan 2015 - 10:16
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The problem is that the set aside could take months, while the bailiffs can turn up today. Given the amount at stake, I think the OP needs to get specific legal advice on their situation.
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anon45
post Fri, 2 Jan 2015 - 10:53
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If the OP has applied for a set aside today, delivered the papers in person, and made a reasoned request for urgency, there is no reason why it would not be granted in a matter of days, and it could even be granted today if a judge is free. It would certainly not take months.

There is no need to pay for legal advice, when every single advice site for dealing with bailiffs says the same thing relating to this situation: don't pay unless forced to under pain of immediate physical seizure of goods, and to apply for a set aside ASAP. Paying for legal advice would definitely not be reclaimable, not even in theory.

If the OP hides his/her car, locks all doors and windows, and doesn't let the bailiffs in under any pretext whatsoever, then he/she should be able to buy enough time to get the all-important set aside, at which point the threat of seizure is nullified.

This post has been edited by anon45: Fri, 2 Jan 2015 - 11:15
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hoohoo
post Fri, 2 Jan 2015 - 11:46
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QUOTE (anon45 @ Fri, 2 Jan 2015 - 10:53) *
If the OP has applied for a set aside today, delivered the papers in person, and made a reasoned request for urgency, there is no reason why it would not be granted in a matter of days, and it could even be granted today if a judge is free. It would certainly not take months.

There is no need to pay for legal advice, when every single advice site for dealing with bailiffs says the same thing relating to this situation: don't pay unless forced to under pain of immediate physical seizure of goods, and to apply for a set aside ASAP. Paying for legal advice would definitely not be reclaimable, not even in theory.

If the OP hides his/her car, locks all doors and windows, and doesn't let the bailiffs in under any pretext whatsoever, then he/she should be able to buy enough time to get the all-important set aside, at which point the threat of seizure is nullified.


If it works like that, great. I don't have enough experience of the court system to know. All the cases I have helped with have taken a lot longer (but were mostly not set asides).
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matt285
post Fri, 2 Jan 2015 - 12:25
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I don't know how many N244s you have lodged with county courts in the last few years anon45 (I have helped with probably 10-20), but I can tell you that the turnaround of them is far from quickly.

Normally county court judges are well utilised from the start, and any free space is quickly swallowed up by family and repossession matters which take precedence over simple civil debt claims. So I think it is highly unusual that an N244 is dealt with any matter of urgency. Which means your whole theory breaks down from the start I'm afraid.

The thing is - your advice is correct in that once the CCJ is set aside the enforcement should stop. But as hoohoo has rightly pointed out (as well as myself), it is highly unlikely for this to happen before enforcement action by the HCEOs is undertaken. So on this basis to prevent further costs the OP is still well advised to contact them. And of course at the same time get the N244 underway.
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Glacier2
post Mon, 5 Jan 2015 - 11:05
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The only other course of action would be to get an injunction pending the set aside.
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ben992
post Mon, 5 Jan 2015 - 13:18
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I have had to send in and pay for two n244 forms

One to set aside the judgement and one to stay the writ.
The enforcement agents are notified within 2 days and will not take anything until the court has made its decision to set aside or not.

This post has been edited by ben992: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 - 13:19
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ben992
post Mon, 5 Jan 2015 - 14:03
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So in the mean time I guess I just wait until the set aside judgement decision takes place in court? I am guessing I will be required to attend?

Thankyou all for your replies. the help is much appreciated.
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