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parking eye membury (welcome break) lol
riley16
post Thu, 26 Sep 2013 - 23:01
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Hi guys,
I've just had a ticket through the door for over staying in Membury welcome break for 40 minutes. The charge is for £100 reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days and I'm gutted as I had an issue with parking eye last year so am extra vigilant when checking for parking signs

The truth is though that we had just been on a 12 hour flight to Heathrow, travelled through 2 different time zones and we were absolutely beat so we decided to stop for a break. We went in bought some food and took some cash out for the bridge and chilled out for a few hours. It was late at night and the car park was pretty much empty so we really didn't cause any losses to any of the business' operating there.

Just wondering if you guys think that I have grounds to appeal this charge and whats the best way to go about it?

Thanks
Riley16

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SchoolRunMum
post Fri, 27 Sep 2013 - 00:00
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Complain first - read the successful complaints to the CEO of Welcome Break here that I have collated (all in the last 6 weeks):

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4766249

...if Welcome Break are slow to sort out your written (assertive!) complaint...not a query, not 'can you help', then appeal the ticket in writing to PE before day 28 (not naming the driver) in order to get a POPLA code. Then you will win at POPLA in the end after reading other threads about the wording that will win.

So summat like this as the complaint to Welcome Break - or your own version equally angry and hard-hitting:




''Dear {CEO of Welcome Break, look him up and use his name and email address!}

OFFICIAL COMPLAINT ABOUT PARKING EYE, AS AGENTS FOR WELCOME BREAK
I am forced to make an official complaint to you because the actions of your agent, Parking Eye, are upsetting, intimidatory and will drive away genuine Welcome Break customers in the long run. You can no doubt guess that we have received a letter purporting to mimic a 'parking ticket' from PE - and yet we knew nothing about any issues at the time when we stopped off at Welcome Break.

We had just been on a 12 hour flight to Heathrow, travelled through 2 different time zones and we were hungry and exhausted - so we decided to stop for a break before continuing on our way. We arrived at Membury services, bought petrol, adjusted the luggage in the car, parked up in the dark car park, bought some food to eat while we rested and then got some cash out for the tollbridge. It was late at night and the car park was pretty much empty so we really didn't cause any losses to you nor PE and, importantly, we saw no signs. I would suggest that they are unclear and/or not lit nor prominent enough to communicate any time limit.

But it was not such a welcome break after all because out of the blue we have now been sent a fake parking ticket by your agents for apparently 'overstaying' a hitherto unknown time limit, by what seems to be a matter of 40 minutes. We are now expected to have to explain our actions to a third party private company who we had no dealings with, no contract with, and who are demanding a lot of money from us - in my book that is totally unacceptable.

We are very upset and increasingly angry about this entire episode. After an enjoyable well-earned holiday, our stop-off at Welcome Break Services late at night has now left a nasty taste in the mouth. Our family is horrified that Welcome Break can allow such a notorious firm to harass customers on your behalf. Because PE sent their letter out unexpectedly, after the event, we do not have a receipt now because we paid cash and discarded the receipt as normal when buying food and drink on a tiring journey. We had no idea about any 2 hour limit - or indeed any possibility of getting a 'parking ticket' - until as the registered keeper of the car, I was suddenly sent a demand by your agents.

I have researched the matter and intend to escalate my challenge against Parking Eye to the independent stage (Parking on Private Land Appeals). However, I am giving Welcome Break the chance to quash the fake PCN once and for all because I feel you need to know that you and your agents are alienating genuine customers due to PE's zero-tolerance policy.

Well before renewing your contracts with Parking Eye when the time comes, might I just suggest you take time to read and digest the implications to other Retailers, Supermarkets & customers, and the picture painted of Parking Eye's aggressive business practices, as set out in the full court judgment for 'Parking Eye v Somerfield - Case No: A3/2011/0909'.

Notwithstanding what Parking Eye may well have to say on the matter, no doubt involving spin about their firm 'being members of the BPA Approved Operator Scheme' (in reality, merely trade body 'club membership' which enables them to buy registered keeper data and certainly does not 'regulate' their industry) I would also respectfully suggest that Welcome Break should research the company you are associating with - in truth, Parking Eye have a terrible online reputation and are now suing customers over minor 'infringements' without referral to their clients, like yourselves, who may still naively believe that their agenda is 'parking management'.

I would also suggest researching the current debacle unfolding over the past 4 months on the Aldi facebook page, which is currently littered with customer complaints about Parking Eye who are actually suing Supermarket customers for 'transgressions' just like my own situation. Welcome Break should consider themselves lucky that the most adverse publicity, now that Parking Eye have become so litigious that I believe well over a thousand people have received court papers in 2013, has so far focussed on other companies in the customer service/retail sector. It seems that so many clients, blinded by the idea of 'parking management for free' have fallen for the spiel of a dominant company whose agenda is profit alone. It is not 'parking management' to have ANPR cameras on site and yet no management of spaces, no attendants and no checks made of disabled bays, for example. It's pure profiteering by your agent, routinely 'farming' car parks with no consideration for individual customer needs and circumstances.

My view is that ostensibly free ANPR-led enforcement of parking spaces by a notorious and litigious third party firm using remote cameras at the entrance and exit, and a few unnoticeable signs, is completely incompatible with the customer service ethic of Welcome Break.

I would welcome your own view on this harassment and hope you see fit to ensure that PE cancel the 'ticket' forthwith. My research about this matter has revealed that you have cancelled some of these tickets for genuine customers recently which has helped to restore my faith a little, albeit tempered with frustration that Welcome Break are allowing such an aggressive agent to have free reign to intimidate customers for their own profit, at your (and your customers') own expense.

yours,


your name


(and add your Parking Eye ticket reference/number)
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riley16
post Sat, 28 Sep 2013 - 21:51
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Hi,
Thanks for the advice. I'll send this to the CEO and let you know how I get on. I'm just wondering if anyone knows how many appeals parking eye have upheld in the last year? Probably none but I'm just curious.

Many Thanks

riley16
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Jlc
post Sat, 28 Sep 2013 - 22:01
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They reject most appeals unless they meet the 'genuine shopper' criteria agreed with their principal.

Anyway, appeal to them, get POPLA code, get them to prove the loss, win, the end.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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SchoolRunMum
post Sat, 28 Sep 2013 - 22:12
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QUOTE (riley16 @ Sat, 28 Sep 2013 - 22:51) *
Hi,
Thanks for the advice. I'll send this to the CEO and let you know how I get on. I'm just wondering if anyone knows how many appeals parking eye have upheld in the last year? Probably none but I'm just curious.

Many Thanks

riley16



Almost none - but POPLA have upheld every forum-assisted (by posters here or MSE) 2nd stage appeal made about Parking Eye for last six months or so. So if you do not hear from Welcome Break in a week or two, make sure you also send a challenge to PE (not naming the driver) to elicit a POPLA code in time.

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 - 22:12
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riley16
post Sat, 28 Sep 2013 - 22:21
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Well I've just sent the complaint to Rod McKie who I believe is the CEO of Welcome Break Membury so we'll see what happens.
While I'm waiting for the reply though, can I get some advice on what to and not to write in my appeal to PE?

Thanks again

riley16
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SchoolRunMum
post Sat, 28 Sep 2013 - 22:23
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http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...pid=874216&

HTH
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Lynnzer
post Sun, 29 Sep 2013 - 07:03
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QUOTE (riley16 @ Sat, 28 Sep 2013 - 22:51) *
Hi,
Thanks for the advice. I'll send this to the CEO and let you know how I get on. I'm just wondering if anyone knows how many appeals parking eye have upheld in the last year? Probably none but I'm just curious.

Many Thanks

riley16

In court papers I've seen they say they allow around 50% of appeals to them then another 50% are allowed at POPLA, of the rest only a small percentage actually pay up on rejection of appeal and these are involved in legal action.

Of course it's all hearsay. They won't substantiate their allowed appeals percentage but give that figure to present a more "friendly" fact to a court.
In fact the true figures are probably less that 2% upheld.


--------------------
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riley16
post Thu, 10 Oct 2013 - 20:54
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Hi,
I just got this response to my complaint to the CEO of Welcome break.


"Thank you for your recent email regarding the parking charge notice you received following a visit to Welcome Break, Membury. May I explain that parking charges have always applied at Welcome Break. Prior to ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) being installed across the estate in 2010, a pay and display process was in place.  You will notice that the same parking restrictions apply at other motorway service area's in the UK such at Moto and Road Chef i.e. 2 hours free parking, after which time, charges apply. The 2 hour free parking policy at Welcome Break is made clear by many clear signs at entrances, exits and throughout each of the main parking areas.   Welcome Break, along with other Motorway Service Area operators have a requirement to manage our car parks, as it is important that we are able to provide enough parking spaces for regular travellers and we cannot do this if our car parks are full with vehicles that are parked for long periods of time. If we do not make a charge after the 2 hour free period we simply wouldn’t have enough spaces for our permitted use.  We must have a process in place to manage this and Welcome Break use Parking Eye to manage our car parks on our behalf.   There is a process in place for customers who receive parking charge notices that they believe are unfair or unreasonable to appeal through Parking Eye, either by letter or email. Please let me know if you would like me to forward your correspondence to the Appeals Team on your behalf."

Regards

Parking Team

Welcome Break

This email has been sent by the "parking team" and Rod Mckie the CEO I originally sent the message to.
What should I do next?

Regards

Riley16



*not Rod Mckie I originally sent the message to.
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matt285
post Thu, 10 Oct 2013 - 21:03
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QUOTE (riley16 @ Thu, 10 Oct 2013 - 21:54) *
This email has been sent by the "parking team" and Rod Mckie the CEO I originally sent the message to.
What should I do next?


As so often the principal cannot be bothered to sort their illegal mess out themselves.

Send a strong appeal to Parking Eye NOT disclosing the driver that they are asking for an unenforceable penalty for a contract that was never validly established in the first place, and if they think any other way they may disclose all their reasons to you and/or uphold their charge and send you the means to refer this issue to arbitration.

Good luck!
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 10 Oct 2013 - 23:06
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I think I would reply and ask why Parking Eye have provided a template reply that someone else has also received today, when in fact you wrote to complain as a customer, to the CEO of Welcome Break and at the very least didn't expect to find the tail wagging the dog:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...mp;#entry878918

Looks familiar? I think Welcome Break have been warned not to get involved, by PE, we saw this in another thread after Cineworld had cancelled a couple of cases. Welcome Break had also cancelled a couple of PE cases recently. We need to up the ante with these complaints, and respond in anger about being fobbed off by what is clearly just PE. There is no way that WB has a 'parking team'. They are being used and manipulated and they don't seem to realise it.
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bama
post Fri, 11 Oct 2013 - 18:49
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what do the headers on that email look like ?
(mask you addy but leave all the others)


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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crashdetective
post Fri, 11 Oct 2013 - 18:52
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Fri, 27 Sep 2013 - 01:00) *
Complain first - read the successful complaints to the CEO of Welcome Break here that I have collated (all in the last 6 weeks):

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4766249

...if Welcome Break are slow to sort out your written (assertive!) complaint...not a query, not 'can you help', then appeal the ticket in writing to PE before day 28 (not naming the driver) in order to get a POPLA code. Then you will win at POPLA in the end after reading other threads about the wording that will win.

So summat like this as the complaint to Welcome Break - or your own version equally angry and hard-hitting:




''Dear {CEO of Welcome Break, look him up and use his name and email address!}

OFFICIAL COMPLAINT ABOUT PARKING EYE, AS AGENTS FOR WELCOME BREAK
I am forced to make an official complaint to you because the actions of your agent, Parking Eye, are upsetting, intimidatory and will drive away genuine Welcome Break customers in the long run. You can no doubt guess that we have received a letter purporting to mimic a 'parking ticket' from PE - and yet we knew nothing about any issues at the time when we stopped off at Welcome Break.

We had just been on a 12 hour flight to Heathrow, travelled through 2 different time zones and we were hungry and exhausted - so we decided to stop for a break before continuing on our way. We arrived at Membury services, bought petrol, adjusted the luggage in the car, parked up in the dark car park, bought some food to eat while we rested and then got some cash out for the tollbridge. It was late at night and the car park was pretty much empty so we really didn't cause any losses to you nor PE and, importantly, we saw no signs. I would suggest that they are unclear and/or not lit nor prominent enough to communicate any time limit.

But it was not such a welcome break after all because out of the blue we have now been sent a fake parking ticket by your agents for apparently 'overstaying' a hitherto unknown time limit, by what seems to be a matter of 40 minutes. We are now expected to have to explain our actions to a third party private company who we had no dealings with, no contract with, and who are demanding a lot of money from us - in my book that is totally unacceptable.

We are very upset and increasingly angry about this entire episode. After an enjoyable well-earned holiday, our stop-off at Welcome Break Services late at night has now left a nasty taste in the mouth. Our family is horrified that Welcome Break can allow such a notorious firm to harass customers on your behalf. Because PE sent their letter out unexpectedly, after the event, we do not have a receipt now because we paid cash and discarded the receipt as normal when buying food and drink on a tiring journey. We had no idea about any 2 hour limit - or indeed any possibility of getting a 'parking ticket' - until as the registered keeper of the car, I was suddenly sent a demand by your agents.

I have researched the matter and intend to escalate my challenge against Parking Eye to the independent stage (Parking on Private Land Appeals). However, I am giving Welcome Break the chance to quash the fake PCN once and for all because I feel you need to know that you and your agents are alienating genuine customers due to PE's zero-tolerance policy.

Well before renewing your contracts with Parking Eye when the time comes, might I just suggest you take time to read and digest the implications to other Retailers, Supermarkets & customers, and the picture painted of Parking Eye's aggressive business practices, as set out in the full court judgment for 'Parking Eye v Somerfield - Case No: A3/2011/0909'.

Notwithstanding what Parking Eye may well have to say on the matter, no doubt involving spin about their firm 'being members of the BPA Approved Operator Scheme' (in reality, merely trade body 'club membership' which enables them to buy registered keeper data and certainly does not 'regulate' their industry) I would also respectfully suggest that Welcome Break should research the company you are associating with - in truth, Parking Eye have a terrible online reputation and are now suing customers over minor 'infringements' without referral to their clients, like yourselves, who may still naively believe that their agenda is 'parking management'.

I would also suggest researching the current debacle unfolding over the past 4 months on the Aldi facebook page, which is currently littered with customer complaints about Parking Eye who are actually suing Supermarket customers for 'transgressions' just like my own situation. Welcome Break should consider themselves lucky that the most adverse publicity, now that Parking Eye have become so litigious that I believe well over a thousand people have received court papers in 2013, has so far focussed on other companies in the customer service/retail sector. It seems that so many clients, blinded by the idea of 'parking management for free' have fallen for the spiel of a dominant company whose agenda is profit alone. It is not 'parking management' to have ANPR cameras on site and yet no management of spaces, no attendants and no checks made of disabled bays, for example. It's pure profiteering by your agent, routinely 'farming' car parks with no consideration for individual customer needs and circumstances.

My view is that ostensibly free ANPR-led enforcement of parking spaces by a notorious and litigious third party firm using remote cameras at the entrance and exit, and a few unnoticeable signs, is completely incompatible with the customer service ethic of Welcome Break.

I would welcome your own view on this harassment and hope you see fit to ensure that PE cancel the 'ticket' forthwith. My research about this matter has revealed that you have cancelled some of these tickets for genuine customers recently which has helped to restore my faith a little, albeit tempered with frustration that Welcome Break are allowing such an aggressive agent to have free reign to intimidate customers for their own profit, at your (and your customers') own expense.

yours,


your name


(and add your Parking Eye ticket reference/number)


Also write on the letter "private & confidential"

Some CEOs apparently insist that they personally open those as marked, or so I am led to believe.
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SchoolRunMum
post Fri, 11 Oct 2013 - 19:29
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So the OP sent that to the CEO and no got a reply from a 'parking team'?

I would post a hard copy version of it instead to the CEO.

Also you do realise that you also have to quickly appeal to Parking Eye at the same time of course? The complaint wasn't the only advice and you have to challenge this within 28 days, regardless of WB's responses.

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 - 19:40
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riley16
post Mon, 14 Oct 2013 - 20:17
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Hi all,
Is this the header you were asking for?

Parking (parking@WelcomeBreak.co.uk) this is who I received my reply from.

Can't believe I complained about a parking eye charge and got passed on to parking eye to deal with it!!

I am just about to send my appeal to PE.and send another email to the CEO.

I'll let you know how I get on.

riley16
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bama
post Mon, 14 Oct 2013 - 20:33
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QUOTE
Parking (parking@WelcomeBreak.co.uk) this is who I received my reply from.

and the IP ? ?


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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riley16
post Mon, 14 Oct 2013 - 20:49
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Sorry,
where do I find the IP?
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bama
post Mon, 14 Oct 2013 - 20:54
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View Headers

cut and paste the lines of info into a PM and send to me


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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riley16
post Mon, 14 Oct 2013 - 20:57
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Hi,
I've decide to strong appeal the parking eye charge. Can I get some guidance on hoe to go about this please?

Many thanks

riley16
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dp7
post Mon, 14 Oct 2013 - 21:05
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QUOTE (riley16 @ Thu, 10 Oct 2013 - 21:54) *
If we do not make a charge after the 2 hour free period we simply wouldn’t have enough spaces for our permitted use. 


This line is such utter rubbish. I have never got to a service station and struggled to find a space, including ones near the convergence of busy routes, let alone one in the middle of Berkshire.
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