UKPC Charge, In private bay at my rented flat Options

[boro12856]

Hi all, spent a while reading various threads but thought I had best ask for my own personal advice.

Me and my partner rent a flat which has a gated entrance and you have your own space (corresponding to flat number) ours is in the underground section. We had a parking permit which has the number of the space on it to display on a daily basis.

Recently the gates to the carpark have been 'broken' and one side is constantly left open, which now has resulted in three UKPC notices in the space of two weeks.

We currently only have her car at the flat and I very rarely use the car, both occasions I have used it and returned to our parking bay I have once forgotten to put the parking permit on the dashboard, returning to the car next morning to see we had a ticket given to us around 4am for not displaying permit. And the second one for the same reason this time however I am 100% certain the permit was placed on the dashboard, however it wasn't there the next morning and another ticket was given (again around 4am, these idiots love a nightshift)

The third notice we had received was when we had friends staying for a weekend, we have a visitor permit too, which we were not given any advice about how long this could be used for by our landlord. All we were told is that if using a visitor permit please park in the disabled bays. Now this permit was used constantly for around 2 weeks when we first moved in as we had two cars then, and no problems. I have also noticed other cars at the flats always in the disabled spots and not disabled drivers.

But one weekend we gave our permit to friends to park downstairs and my girlfriend parked her car in the visitors bay, on the second night she received another charge notice this time saying that she had over stayed her welcome in the visitors bay.

Now I am just looking for what to do with these pieces of paper I have been given, as there is NO WAY I will be paying them a penny! We need to use an electric fob to gain access to the carpark, and our parking spot corresponds with our flat number. So if they are coming in EVERY NIGHT they must see the car in the same bay using the permit, yet the ONE occasions I genuinely know I forgot to display the permit a ticket is slapped straight on. It is funny however how the influx of tickets corresponds with the gated entrance been broken.

Thanks for any help.

Regards

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[emanresu]

I assume since the 28 days have not expired they are still to contact the Keeper about these. Wait until that comes unless it is a hire/lease car.

In the meantime, dig your lease/rental agreement out and see what it says about parking. It would sound as if you have the right to peaceful enjoyment and they are actually trespassing on your property.

Do you rent from a private individual or a company. Either should be able to tell them to cancel.

[The Slithy Tove]

The more of these fake tickets you get, the better. Each one is going to cost UKPC £27+VAT when you appeal, have the appeal rejected, then take it to POPLA, and win.

As emanresu says, wait for the NtK, but meanwhile, the LEASE is the important document (not the rental agreement). The LEASE that you landlord has will have something about parking, especially if there's an allocated, numbered space. It will be very useful to get the exact wording in that document. Beyond that, your rental agreement may say something, if only to confer you the rights that the leaseholder has over the space. In other words, does the rental agreement impose any additional restrictions over your parking?

[boro12856]

I assume since the 28 days have not expired they are still to contact the Keeper about these. Wait until that comes unless it is a hire/lease car.

In the meantime, dig your lease/rental agreement out and see what it says about parking. It would sound as if you have the right to peaceful enjoyment and they are actually trespassing on your property.

Do you rent from a private individual or a company. Either should be able to tell them to cancel.

The more of these fake tickets you get, the better. Each one is going to cost UKPC £27+VAT when you appeal, have the appeal rejected, then take it to POPLA, and win.

As emanresu says, wait for the NtK, but meanwhile, the LEASE is the important document (not the rental agreement). The LEASE that you landlord has will have something about parking, especially if there's an allocated, numbered space. It will be very useful to get the exact wording in that document. Beyond that, your rental agreement may say something, if only to confer you the rights that the leaseholder has over the space. In other words, does the rental agreement impose any additional restrictions over your parking?

We rent from a company in Portsmouth and when we moved in it sounded like the agents were handing this for a 'friend' of hers but on moving in we received a letter from a estate company outlining details of the parking restrictions in the 'site' as they name it on the letter.

I will contact the estate agent we signed the rental agreement with and ask for the details from her.

The NtK arrived yesterday anyway

[The Slithy Tove]

If the estate company is just a management company, they can make up all the rules they want, but they cannot impose conditions over private parking spaces (unless the lease allows).

When this gets as far as POPLA, among all the other appeal points, you will require UKPC to supply and POPLA to review -

• A copy of the current signed site agreement or contract with the landowner/occupier of that site
• A copy of the wording of the current imposed permit scheme with proof that the landowner and the current residents have agreed to/been informed about it
• Evidence that UKPC are legally enabled to override the prior rights, covenants and easements enjoyed by the residents under their lease/rental agreements
• A current map of all the areas and bays of that car park where the permit scheme is and is not applicable, as agreed with the landowner/occupier
• Contemporaneous photos of the actual signs on site taken from the view of the driver of a car at the entrance and in the car park
• A definitive map of where these signs are in that particular car park
• A detailed breakdown of how the amount of the 'charge' was arrived at.
Sice their agreement will be with the management company, and not the landowner/occupier, this is going to be hard for them.

[SchoolRunMum]

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...37&posted=1

HTH with the challenge at this stage.

[Lynnzer]

I take it that the scumbag ticketing you is also a resident?
They will be operating a self ticketing scheme with a kickback to the $hithead giving you a rough time of it.
Print off a few posters to put through other residents letterboxes telling them of the scam

Keep your eyes open, literally and see who has their lights on in their flat that early in the morning. That'll be them,,,,,

This post has been edited by Lynnzer: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 - 11:31

[boro12856]

Should I be making a 'soft appeal' now the first NtK has arrived?

I am struggling to find any sort of definitive way of doing this, however I am working nights right now and I am a little tired but will keep searching the forums for what to put down on the appeal.

Thanks

[boro12856]

I take it that the scumbag ticketing you is also a resident?
They will be operating a self ticketing scheme with a kickback to the $hithead giving you a rough time of it.
Print off a few posters to put through other residents letterboxes telling them of the scam

Keep your eyes open, literally and see who has their lights on in their flat that early in the morning. That'll be them,,,,,

Not sure if this will be the case as the only time I have saw tickets on the car is when the gates into the parking were broken. I even had a little test one night since the gates were fixed and didnt display permit next morning no ticket.

[kirkbyinfurnessl...]

Yes appeal to them now. All you need to say is this.

*I don't believe you have the legal right to issue invoices on my parking space.

If you disagree and thus decline my appeal then please send me a popla appeal*

Nothing else is needed

This post has been edited by kirkbyinfurnesslad: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 - 21:05

[boro12856]

Yes appeal to them now. All you need to say is this.

*I don't believe you have the legal right to issue invoices on my parking space.

If you disagree and thus decline my appeal then please send me a popla appeal*

Nothing else is needed

Thanks Kirby, will get this done and posted on Monday

[boro12856]

Just an update, appeal was sent off but yet to receive anything back from UKPC. Also still no letters yet received with regards to the other two tickets I have collected.

I did ring my letting agent and speak to them who told me they would get them all cancelled no problem, however the agent is a little useless and when I rang her a few days later she hadnt contacted anyone with regards to it yet. But due to the fact we are yet to receive anymore NtK's for the other invoices I believe they MAY of been cancelled.

Anyway here's a good one for you all, I recently misplaced the permit I was issued and spoke to my letting agent who have requested a new permit but in the meantime I was told to keep parking in my bay but use my visitors permit. Now I didnt really trust this but last night I parked in my own bay, in the same vehicle which is always parked in the bay even displayed my visitors permit and I even had the courtesy to write a little note stating that the permit was lost but I was informed to still use my bay and display visitors permit. LOW AND BEHOLD AT 4:09AM THIS MORNING!!!!!!!!!! (who the heck works at this ungodly hour issuing invoices) I received another ticket for "failing to display a valid parking permit" I have rang my letting agent again to inform her of this and she has said she will get it cancelled, but seriously this mob are taking the **** and its starting to really annoy me.

If I receive anymore NtK's should I keep appealing? As I am tempted just to ignore all of this from now on.

Regards
Paul

[andy_foster]

It is perfectly safe to ignore fake parking fines from UKPC. You might be able to have a bit of fun at their expense, but if you really can't be bothered to deal with them, don't.

[Jlc]

LOW AND BEHOLD AT 4:09AM THIS MORNING!!!!!!!!!!

No tickets, no income... The middle of the night one works wonders for them.........

[instrumentsofjoy]

Sue them for trespass. They have what is known to the BiB as "form".

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum...ass-**SUCCESS**

We pressed on with our county court Claim against UK Parking control Limited
( UKPC ) in the Winchester County Court.
On 21.1.2013 UKPC in an Order by consent gave undertakings to the Court not to enter our land and not to place any parking chargeNotices on our cars and the Court ordered:
1. Judgment for the Claimants ( ourselves )
2. Damages for trespass in a total of £150.00
3. UKPC to pay our costs in the sum of £ 1280.26 ( now paid )
R.L.Davey

[boro12856]

So it has been a while since I last posted but I am after some further advice.

I have searched both on here and on MSE and found some threads regarding my issue, but I am wondering if anyone can give me personal advice for my situation.

Background info: We continued to get tickets on both our vehicles which were parking in our parking spaces inside an enclosed parking for our flat we rent from a landlady.

I contacted the owner of the land and continued to hassle them regards the workings of UKPC at our flat and in the end it seems the issuing of tickets has now seized (considering neither myself or my partner display any sort of permit)

However in the interim I did begin with responding to every charge, denying to pay and requesting a POPLA. Only on ONE occasion did I ever receive a POPLA code, and as we became barraged with tickets I gave up responding to them all and just began to ignore as people said in other threads and mine that UKPC can be ignored.

Queue today when I received a message from my partner saying she has been issued with a letter from SMALL CLAIM SOLICITORS regarding three PCN received that we had ignored.

I am wondering how to proceed with this, we will not be paying a penny to anyone as we already pay enough in rent which states we have parking spaces in the contract.

Can we continue to ignore or should we send an email back? I have saw that lazydaisy (ex solicitor) recommends responding but doesnt say you should respond.

I have attached the letter to the post, just it personally has both me and my partner worried as we are in the process of arranging our first mortgage and dont want something like this to come and bite us in the a**e!

I havent received one of these myself but I am expecting one in the near future.

Appreciate any help anyone can give me.

Thanks
P

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[ostell]

Did you notice the expression "May issue legal....". Only may.

I would write back to them pointing out again that you have a right to use the land without interference. If they issue a claim then you will counterclaim for the aggravation. If you receive any more letters from them, other than a cancellation, then there will be a charge of £100 per letter. This will be held to be accepted by their actions (someone knows the correct wording).

Point them in the direction of the Winchester case.

[farmerboy]

However in the interim I did begin with responding to every charge, denying to pay and requesting a POPLA. Only on ONE occasion did I ever receive a POPLA code, and as we became barraged with tickets I gave up responding to them all and just began to ignore as people said in other threads and mine that UKPC can be ignored.

Did you use it and win?

Queue today when I received a message from my partner saying she has been issued with a letter from SMALL CLAIM SOLICITORS regarding three PCN received that we had ignored.

Heres a thread with some info on your small claims solicitors.
Not giving a popla code is a no no and a complaint to the BPA would have sorted it out. If you'd have approached this with a bit more effort you could have cost them a significant amount of money and they would have left you alone by now. If its a significant amount of tickets they feel its worth pursuing you in the hope that you'll give in but that's not the case is it though you may have to put some effort in.
This needs a gan letter. You could probably still ignore but I would engage. Look up Davey v UKPC in Winchester. See what others say.

This post has been edited by farmerboy: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 - 22:37

[boro12856]

However in the interim I did begin with responding to every charge, denying to pay and requesting a POPLA. Only on ONE occasion did I ever receive a POPLA code, and as we became barraged with tickets I gave up responding to them all and just began to ignore as people said in other threads and mine that UKPC can be ignored.

Did you use it and win?

Queue today when I received a message from my partner saying she has been issued with a letter from SMALL CLAIM SOLICITORS regarding three PCN received that we had ignored.

Heres a thread with some info on your small claims solicitors.
Not giving a popla code is a no no and a complaint to the BPA would have sorted it out. If you'd have approached this with a bit more effort you could have cost them a significant amount of money and they would have left you alone by now. If its a significant amount of tickets they feel its worth pursuing you in the hope that you'll give in but that's not the case is it though you may have to put some effort in.
This needs a gan letter. You could probably still ignore but I would engage. Look up Davey v UKPC in Winchester. See what others say.

I did appeal in the beginning, but to be quite frank I just got sick of it all and I have a life without sitting and conducting letters none stop to these idiots.

With regards to the POPLA we received no we didnt win, we got another response saying the lowered charge we were offered was to be upheld. With regards to that one it was my car parked in our bay for our flat, and I parked overnight but forgot to display the permit they request me to show. I argued the case saying due to human error blah blah and got the response from UKPC saying they are offering me a lower fee, along with POPLA code.

What is a gan letter? And when you said heres a thread with some info there was no link, can you please share again?

Thanks

[Fleagle]

You say your parking space is attached to your flat... What exactly does your lease say?

Just that, if the wording is right, you can sue the private parking company should they fail to stop issuing "parking tickets" after you've sent them an appropriate letter - as long as your lease says 'certain' things .

We're talking significant financial sanctions and negative return on 'their' funds here (especially if every leaseholder indulges) .

Alternatively (and more blatantly but more simply ) - though no-one will suggest this *ahem* - the leaseholders could *allegedly* arrange to park "illegally" in turns of (say ) five for every night each week, followed by the next five (or whatever number) parking "illegally" the next week, then the following five (as above) the week after - rinse and repeat until the "parking tickets stop being applied (to quote Jack Carter , "I told you it wouldn't take long!!") .

The leaseholders who parked "illegally" each week then each have seven "parking notices" which they will individually appeal and request POPLA codes each time (at 27 groats each ) every time and it soon multiplies up - at which time the PPC soon exits stage left .

Not that anyone would recommend this organised sabotage.

Oh NO!!