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Ukcps parking fine, Advice please
Arizona
post Sat, 30 Mar 2013 - 23:16
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I wondered if anyone can advise me regarding a parking' fine' from UkCPS received. The car park is free to park but there were no spaces available. I parked on some yellow hatchlings as I had to collect something from the store, I was only 5 mins. The car was not obstructing anything or anyone. When I returned to the car It had a yellow parking notice stuck on the screen. I was not aware of any signs advising me of parking enforcement in the area as it is all free parking for the shops on site. It says I have to pay £60 which seems ridiculously high! I went on their websites and there are a number of court judgements posted in their favour....allegedly. The wording on the tickets seemed a little odd (poorly written) which makes me wonder if I am being scammed..... Can anyone advise? Thank you.

This post has been edited by Arizona: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 17:02
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post Sat, 30 Mar 2013 - 23:16
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jagger
post Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 07:31
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Yes stop going on their website first, they are only interested in getting money off you, so they have designed their website to intimidate you. They do issue claims in court in a minute number of cases, Peter Haswell their office manager is a nervous wreck when he attends court, and he trolls websites looking for victims, you'll probably fit into that category.

You have a few choices, the first of which is to pay them, which defeats the object of coming here to begin with, this invoice is not a fine or penalty. The second is to appeal if in England or Wales, and get a popla code to appeal independently when they turn down your initial appeal. If in Scotland or NI just ignore, which is also your third choice.
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The Rookie
post Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 07:48
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You don't have a fine at all, you either have an invoice for an alleged breach of contract, or an invoice for a contractual charge, depending on what they think is most likely to work this week.

If you saw no signs, then you couldn't enter into a contract, so they have no claim under either terms.

Is your car registered to you or is it company or hire or lease?


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Arizona
post Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 15:04
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Hi, thanks for the responses, sounds like I should start the appeal process. Have managed to navigate my way round this site now and have found lots of the posts round this company. Didn't think the ticket looked very authentic hence my searching web for info. Signs definitely not evident, 'fine' ridiculous so will happily take the company on. Any words of wisdom & advice on taking UKCPS on gratefully received.

This post has been edited by Arizona: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 17:03
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tapas600
post Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 15:15
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QUOTE (Arizona @ Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 15:04) *
Any words of wisdom & advice on taking UKCPS on gratefully received.

UKCPS usually shy away once you show them you know what the game is. Look around here for a short snappy draft of a challenge to them along the lines: do they have a right to offer a contract on that land; who's the landowner; show landowner's permission to commence legal proceedings on their behalf; what is the alleged breach they are claiming under - trespass or a loss; if a loss what are actual estimates of the loss - i.e. breakdown of how it is calculated - no business running costs allowed; etc. ...

This post has been edited by tapas600: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 16:34


--------------------
Remember: No one can fine you or issue a penalty other than a court, a policeman or a local authority under legislative powers.
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4
Further guidance on PoFA - DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
Essential Reading: Approved Operator Scheme (AOS) Guide to the Legislation
- to learn how the private parking charges process works look at this flowchart
- to see what your steps should be in challenging any private parking charges use this interactive wizard
- to help you appeal charges to PMCs use these Appeal Points Templates by Lynnzer. Amend as necessary to fit your personal circumstances.
- to post images and documents I use http://imageshack.us and http://www.scribd.com
Parking on Private Land Appeals or POPLA is run by London Councils - the British Parking Association Ltd. (BPA Ltd) pays London Councils for this service.
In fact, POPLA is a kangaroo court that rubber stumps private parking companies claims - read this Telegraph article and this Blog. The related documents can be found here.
To see for yourself why POPLA has no legal powers and is not really independent please download and read this document from London Councils’ Transport & Environment Committee.
More evidence that POPLA is not independent - read how PPCs are subverting the due appeal process and seek a back door deal to influence POPLA decisions.
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Arizona
post Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 16:27
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Thank you. Really appreciate the advice..just to clarify as am reading loads of different forums on the subject...is it better to appeal than ignore and 'not engage in their procedure' as some advise.......

This post has been edited by Arizona: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 17:00
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 17:23
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I say better to appeal these days, here's a thread discussing the options and a legal challenge approach:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=77301




HTH

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 17:24
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Gan
post Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 17:30
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UKCPS have been known to take "Ignorers" to court so there's little advantage in refusing to engage with them

Either go in with a straight challenge that makes clear you know about POPLA, or the series of questions "to properly consider your position" that Tapas likes

With a ligation-happy company like UKCPS I would go with the Tapas route to demonstrate how reasonable you've been.
You've even saved them the expense of getting your details from DVLA

As an aside, their website states that thier standard parking charge is £100, discounted to £60 for prompt payment but can be varied "to suit your particular circumstances"

Doesn't sound like a realistic estimate of their losses to me

This post has been edited by Gan: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 17:36
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nigelbb
post Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 18:03
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The fiction these companies try & perpetuate is that you entered into a contract with them by reading their signs & then parking as part of that contract you agreed to pay some ludicrous sum like £60 if you transgressed any of their arbitrary rules e.g. park outside marked bay. Obviously nobody would enter into such a ludicrous ones-sided contract however if you didn't see the signs then you definitely did not enter into a contract.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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Salmosalaris
post Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 18:36
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QUOTE (Gan @ Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 18:30) *
UKCPS have been known to take "Ignorers" to court so there's little advantage in refusing to engage with them

Other than making sure theyre schedule 4 compliant by waiting until they chase the keeper


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Note, I am not legally qualified and not offering legal advice .Liability for application of anything I say lies with the reader
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Arizona
post Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 20:28
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Thanks for the response and advice, really appreciate them all. Sorry for my ignorance but what is Tapas that Gan refers to...have read about POPLA but not heard of Tapas

This post has been edited by Arizona: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 20:34
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Gan
post Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 20:38
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QUOTE (Arizona @ Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 21:28) *
Thanks for the response and advice, really appreciate them all. Sorry for my ignorance but what is Tapas that Gan refers to...have read about POPLA but not heard of Tapas

Apologies

Tapas600 is a member
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tapas600
post Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 21:17
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QUOTE (Gan @ Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 21:38) *
QUOTE (Arizona @ Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 21:28) *
Thanks for the response and advice, really appreciate them all. Sorry for my ignorance but what is Tapas that Gan refers to...have read about POPLA but not heard of Tapas

Apologies

Tapas600 is a member

biggrin.gif

Like Gan said this approach demonstrates how reasonable you've been by creating a track record of your engagement with the PPC. I adopted it after reading wise advice from other members here.

What it also does (while PPCs might not spot it) - it gives you the evidence that can and would be used in a court, should matters escalate. If the PPC would change their story at some point (i.e. POPLA stage or a small claims stage) you will have a record of everything they have told you - be it avoiding a direct response to your very reasonable questions of their eligibility to form a contract; their right to ask you about your financial details; their right to take you to a court on behalf of their landowner, etc.

And if they try to change their story ... well, it should unleash his honour judge McIlvaine fury on the rascals. And here's a Daily Mail synopsis.

This post has been edited by tapas600: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 21:45


--------------------
Remember: No one can fine you or issue a penalty other than a court, a policeman or a local authority under legislative powers.
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4
Further guidance on PoFA - DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
Essential Reading: Approved Operator Scheme (AOS) Guide to the Legislation
- to learn how the private parking charges process works look at this flowchart
- to see what your steps should be in challenging any private parking charges use this interactive wizard
- to help you appeal charges to PMCs use these Appeal Points Templates by Lynnzer. Amend as necessary to fit your personal circumstances.
- to post images and documents I use http://imageshack.us and http://www.scribd.com
Parking on Private Land Appeals or POPLA is run by London Councils - the British Parking Association Ltd. (BPA Ltd) pays London Councils for this service.
In fact, POPLA is a kangaroo court that rubber stumps private parking companies claims - read this Telegraph article and this Blog. The related documents can be found here.
To see for yourself why POPLA has no legal powers and is not really independent please download and read this document from London Councils’ Transport & Environment Committee.
More evidence that POPLA is not independent - read how PPCs are subverting the due appeal process and seek a back door deal to influence POPLA decisions.
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Arizona
post Sun, 31 Mar 2013 - 21:23
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Thank you all so much. Have a much better understanding of what to do now and how to challenge. Appreciate the time you've taken to advise.
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