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103mph on M23 - Court Summons Advise
Arcy
post Fri, 3 Jun 2005 - 18:56
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Hi, I'm hoping someone can give me some advise.
To keep to the FAQ guidelines...

1. England
2. Surrey
3. Nov 20 2004
4. Verbal NIP
5. May 16 2005 icon_eek.gif
6. Verbal + Summons correctly addressed.
7. First Class Post
8. Company Car (but I gave my home address at time of verbal NIP)
9. UK licence.
10. Six points (9 on paper, but 3 have expired)
11. Pulled over by motorway police doing 103mph. 9pm. Light traffic. Good weather and conditions (although it was dark). Vascar (pilot) reading. I watched the video in their car. Verbal NIP. Apologised to the friendly policeman and signed a piece of paper. Nothing came through for 5 1/2 months, so I was starting to think I'd somehow got away with it.... but, no. ~sigh~

Ok. Basically I hold my hands up to this. It was stupid of me to drive at that speed, and I have no serious mitigating circumstance other than having had a really bad day at work and I was running *very* late to get home.

The summons is in two weeks, and I'm petrified. The main problem being that I already have 6 points on my licence. I've done a lot of background reading through this board and others, and everything seems to suggest that I'm looking at 6 points for this offense. Under "totting up" rules... I would lose my licence with this.

And... just to make matters a little worse... after 2 months of not receiving anything through the post, I started to slip back into old habits and got pulled again for doing 54 on a 40 (dual carriageway). For reference, this brought be back up to 6 points after 3 of my points expired.

The problem. I would, without doubt lose my job and career if I were to lose my licence. My work relies on my ability to drive all over the southeast. I would not be able to obtain another job within my industry without the ability to drive, and I would have to start from scratch all over again, having worked my way into a good position over the last 6 years.

I fully intend to plead guilty, but do not know what sort of ability I will have to ask for leniency from the magistrate. My financial situation is reasonably good. I'm not rich by any standards, but I would be able to handle a reasonable fine.

What are my options?
Can I literally plead stupidity, look apologetic and effectively beg for 5 points and a large fine instead of 6 points and a 6 month ban?

I haven't spoken to my boss yet. But I have been advised by others to get a written letter (or possibly even representation) from the company stating that without a licence I will lose my job and career prospects.

But, should I consider a solicitor? To be honest, I don't see the point. I intend to plead guilty and just be honest. I can't see the point of paying someone £500+ to stand next to me, explain the situation and find myself without a licence regardless.

In fact. I have no idea how the whole system works? Will I even be able to ask for leniency? Is it very official, or quite informal? 10 mins? 2 hours? Arghhh... so many unknowns.

Oh... damn this whole situation. It makes me feel sick everytime I think about it. Please.. any advise would be appreciated. I'm a nice guy with a stupid tendancy to drive a bit fast (although, always considerately and... in my mind, appropriately).

Thanks in advance.

Arcy.

Ooops. Sorry. I appear to have rambled somewhat.
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post Fri, 3 Jun 2005 - 18:56
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Slowpoke
post Sat, 4 Jun 2005 - 05:36
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Difficult to fight it when you've been stopped by a BiB.

Sounds like you want to study up on the fine art of mitigation, if you're going to plead guilty.

There's a couple of posts on here somewhere about mitigation, have a look or maybe someone can gve the link.....

Good luck.


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matt1133
post Sat, 4 Jun 2005 - 06:19
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Mitigation:
[forum link]


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LancashireLad
post Sat, 4 Jun 2005 - 09:05
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It depends on how old the 6 points are and what they were for.  If they were years ago then the magistrates may listen to your mitigation if it was for dangerous driving in April then they may ignore your mitigation.

If you have 2 disabled children who depend on your driving and perhaps an elderly bedridden relative who needs you to shop for them then they may not ban you -and leave you on 12 points - they dont HAVE to ban you if it is not in the peoples best interest to do so.

You will need to sincerely convince them that even though you are remorseful and accept the punishment lots of other people depend on you.

Obviously dont lie, purjury is a nasty thing with free HM holidays attached.

As for hiring a brief the magistrates will want you there anyway so who do you think will do a better job of mitigation, you (nicely scrubbed up and remorseful) or a solicitor?
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Arcy
post Mon, 6 Jun 2005 - 13:26
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Hi.

Thanks for the advise so far. I was sooo expecting people to either ignore me, or call me a stupid fool for driving so fast. Anyway... the genuine guidance really is appreciated.

Anyway... to clarify a few things.

My "Points" history to date.

August 2001 - SP50 - 96mph in a 70 (motorway). - Expired, but still on licence.
Decem 2002 - SP30 - 42mph in a 30 (dual carriageway, but london)
Februa 2005 - SP30 - 54mph in a 40 (dual carriageway)

The problem with "mitigating circumstances" is that I don't have any of any substance, and I'm not willing to lie in court. I am very reliant on my car for personal life and work, but I certainly don't have any "dependables". The only slight chance along that route is my girlfriend. She suffers severe clinical depression and anxiety, and I tend to drive her everywhere. Until recently, she used to drive herself... but after she was the subject of a hit & run (with a rather unsavoury threat from the "hitter" prior to driving off), she has lost all confidence in driving on her own. But, I doubt a magistrate is really going to count this a exceptional circumstance, as she could drive if forced... it would just require a flood of tears before & after.

Not that it probably matters, but if I was to use this... I could mention that she was the reason I was "hurrying" home. It even says that as my "statement" on the paperwork recieved with the NIP/summons. She has mini panic attacks all the time, and I'd promised to be home by a certain time (which I wasn't, due to work) and I was stupidly rushing to minimise the "damage" when I got home.

The more I write about this... the more I'm convincing myself that this should be my approach (along with lots of apologising).

Picking up on some other advise... I will also try and get my company to book a "safe driving" course in advance of the court appearance. This was I can demonstrate my willingness to change my ways. I won't mention that I've already sat it twice.

Or... would it be to my advantage to mention that I've sat Advanced / Safer Driving courses? Or, will that simply incriminate myself and demonstrate that I've payed no attention to the course in the first place?

On the day, I'll definitely be in a suit and looking genuinely remorseful.

But... I still need to ask the question again. Is there the opportunity to ask for 5 points instead of 6? I could handle a short ban, but 6 months really will ruin my career. Clearly, with 11 points, my driving would be forced to be impeccable.


(oh... I've rambled again. Thanks if you've been bothered to read this far.)
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Lance
post Mon, 6 Jun 2005 - 14:14
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QUOTE
The problem. I would, without doubt lose my job and career if I were to lose my licence. My work relies on my ability to drive all over the southeast. I would not be able to obtain another job within my industry without the ability to drive, and I would have to start from scratch all over again
That's a good mitigating statement if I've ever heard one. If you can support this with something in writing, that would be good.

QUOTE
She suffers severe clinical depression and anxiety, and I tend to drive her everywhere. Until recently, she used to drive herself... but after she was the subject of a hit & run (with a rather unsavoury threat from the "hitter" prior to driving off), she has lost all confidence in driving on her own.
QUOTE
She has mini panic attacks all the time, and I'd promised to be home by a certain time (which I wasn't, due to work) and I was stupidly rushing to minimise the "damage" when I got home.
These may help also.

Advanced driving courses are a bit of a double-edged sword, as you indicated. If you attended before the offence, then it may be concluded that you ought to have know better, and what will it take before you learn? Booking one now might not be a bad idea.

Hope this helps.


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chadders
post Mon, 6 Jun 2005 - 14:24
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Good points from Lance.

Approx. £90 for a "Medical Authority" from a solicitor, which your lady signs and then solicitor uses to get medical notes and brief letter from her GP stating her condition. Doc will be told it is to be used in mitigation and may write a paragraph on not advising you to be banned (will be taken very seriously by mags).

Not much you can do about your licence - they will ask to see it / be pointed out about potential totting up. Unfortunately, if you were in their shoes and you got given your licence, it wouldn't read well regarding would it?

If you are given a totting up ban, then if it's 6 months (?) you would be clean by december, whereas 12 points now would only come down to 9 points december.
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Arcy
post Mon, 13 Jun 2005 - 13:24
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Just thought I'd close this one down. Had my court appearance this morning.

I still have my licence.

Not exactly one of the most pleasant experiences of my life, but I can't complain. After being as genuinely remorseful as I possibly could, and a very useful letter from my company stating their reliance on my driving abilities... I came out with 6 points (bringing me up to the deadly 12)... BUT, they took into consideration the effect that a ban would have on my life, my girlfriend and most importantly the effect it would have on my company's performance. The "totter" ban has been suspended.

As an attempt to give guidance to anyone else...

I didn't get any "medical authority" regarding my girlfriends "condition", but they took my plea under oath as genuine (again... the wobbly chin whilst talking about her probably helped).  

The letter from the company was essential and very very helpful / persuasive.

I also booked a "Defensive Driving Course" which I'm sure demonstrated my willingness to change.

The closing comment from the magistrate... "You do realise the serious nature of the situation you are now in? Any mistakes what-so-ever, and you will without doubt lose your licence completely." , "Yes Maam. Impeccable Maam".

Two years, 5 months and 3 days of impeccable driving ahead of me. Whooop!

I'm pretty sure the fact I was nearly in tears throughout the whole proceeding helped slightly. Losing the licence would really have been devastating.

Kids! Speeding! Don't do it. It ain't worth the hassle.  :roll:
Gonna have to start planning weekend trips to German Autobahns now  :twisted:

And... if it helps in any way, admin, feel free to use my stats.

103mph - 70 - M - VASCAR - Instant - £400 fine (£35 costs), 6 points, no ban - 28/M - Golf TDi

And... just for comparison. The only other guy in court on a driving offense was being charged for crashing a car whilst only having a provisional licence and two passengers (not drivers) and no insurance. He got £180 fine and 9 points.

Thanks to everyone who gave direct advise in both my thread and pretty much every other thread on this site that has been a great help. Superb forum. Long may you be able to help others.
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matt1133
post Mon, 13 Jun 2005 - 13:28
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Well done, a good result  :wink:

Cheers,
matt


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chadders
post Mon, 13 Jun 2005 - 14:16
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Although painful, well done on avoiding the totting up ban.

I wish you well with your driving over the next couple of years until the points come off - just remember, the ar$eholes tailgating or goading you to go faster won't be paying your fines or giving you lifts later on - stick 2 fingers up and play it cool  8)

edit: i think all the members on here should consider this if someone appears to be sticking to (or just below the limit) when driving, and back off a little (aside from the fact it's just a plain nice to do!).
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