Parking Allowed Next to Zebra crossing Zig Zags, Kensington & Chelsea allows parking next to zig zags |
Helping the motorist get justice
Helping the motorist get justice
Parking Allowed Next to Zebra crossing Zig Zags, Kensington & Chelsea allows parking next to zig zags |
 Tue, 12 Oct 2010 - 10:30
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 146 Joined: 23 Oct 2009 Member No.: 33,093  |
There are a couple of Zebra Crossings in Kensington & Chelsea where you are allowed to park adjacent to the zig zags. I have attached a few photos so you can see what I mean.
Is this allowed. I could not believe it when I first saw it. I thought the idea of the zig zags was so you had a clear view of the crossing and could see if anyone was about to cross. Even though the crossing itself justs out into the carriage way when cars are parked there you really cant see if anybody is waiting to cross - especially a small child. One of the crossings has been there for a long time and you will be able to see in in street view. It is near Collingham Place SW5 and I thought it might just have always been like that. Then recently the council installed a new one in Tor Gardens W8. Having the parking allowed on the approach side means you have even less of a view. Sometimes we get posters on here who have been ticketed for parking on the pavement along side the zig zag and the council says it is not allowed because it is dangerous. They can send one of these photos in and say its OK in Kensington & Chelsea.    
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Tue, 12 Oct 2010 - 10:30
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Tue, 12 Oct 2010 - 14:04
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#2
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 Member Group: Members Posts: 4,012 Joined: 17 Mar 2008 From: Worcestershire Member No.: 18,111 |
The parking area is "off" the highway & it is therefore legal to park there as you are not on the zig zags, 1000's like this throughout the country.
Unsafe/illogical/silly? It's wise not to confuse the law with common sense, they often are poor bed fellows 
-------------------- Now driving a Mercedes Sprinter, the Transit died of too much work.
Results for last 5 years:- 12 PPC tickets received, 0 paid 2 Council tickets received, 0 paid (both canceled) 2 Nip's in 40 years 1 paid (damn!) 1 SAC, duly educated! |
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Tue, 12 Oct 2010 - 15:04
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#3
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 Member Group: Members Posts: 12,758 Joined: 7 Jan 2008 From: London Member No.: 16,454 |
QUOTE (Nagoya @ Tue, 12 Oct 2010 - 11:30)  Having the parking allowed on the approach side means you have even less of a view. Sometimes we get posters on here who have been ticketed for parking on the pavement along side the zig zag and the council says it is not allowed because it is dangerous. They can send one of these photos in and say its OK in Kensington & Chelsea. That would get them precisely nowhere. -------------------- Dave-o 3-0 LB Waltham Forest.
Goalscorers: B. Alighting 08', G. Fettered 34', I. Markings 42' Dave-o 2-0 LB Islington Goalscorers: V. Locus 82', I. Dates, 87' Dave-o 1-0 LB Redbridge Goalscorer: I. Markings 79' Dave-o 1-0 LB sCamden Goalscorer: I. Dates, 86' |
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Tue, 12 Oct 2010 - 16:22
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,182 Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Member No.: 35,272 |
Placing parking places in the controlled area would seem to be prohibited.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/31...ulation/27/made. This seems to be supported by the 250mm maximum that the termination lines can be from the edge of the carriageway. http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?...p;filesize=2765 |
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Wed, 13 Oct 2010 - 18:01
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Member No.: 4,489 |
One problem is the definition of the edge of the carriageway.
The council would argue that the zigzag lines are painted at the edge of the carriageway as the parking bays are not part of the carriageway. However parking bays are not a permitted road marking within the regulations. My council have said a white hatch area at the side of the road next to the zebra crossing and a parking bay overlapping the zigzags are laybys and the regulations state if the zigzags overlap the start of a layby then the layby is subject to the restrictions of zigzag lines to the back of the layby. This would make parking in the parking bay illegal although a layby is a provision for temporary parking as defined in the dictionary. I have found a zebra crossing in town where the zigzags overlap the start of a layby for shoppers to park and taxis to wait. By their own logic this is not allowed. Go figure. I am going to court to get a legal ruling. I have photographed and drawn out the markings on a number of Zebra crossings in my town. None of them are identical. They are all marked out differently. So whats legal and whats not? let the court decide. I will appeal all the way to the lords if the court supports the council. Its ridiculous. This post has been edited by fossn: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 - 18:14 |
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Wed, 13 Oct 2010 - 22:08
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,670 Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Member No.: 18,956 |
WHy are you going to court? How are you going to court?
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Sat, 16 Oct 2010 - 11:27
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Member No.: 4,489 |
I have been ticketed for parking on zig zags outside my house. The crossing does not conform with the regulations so I have chosen to take it to court.
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Sat, 16 Oct 2010 - 12:12
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 24,629 Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Member No.: 4,323 |
and which court is that and how will you get there.
This is done under CPR part 75 http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_...arts/part75.htm and see http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk...enforcement.htm you won't be going to court unless you go all the way to JR after exhausting the appeal process. -------------------- NOTICE The content of this post and of any replies to it may assist in or relate to the formulation of strategy tactics etcetera in a legal action. This post and any replies to it should therefore be assumed to be legally privileged and therefore must not be disclosed, copied, quoted, discussed, used or referred to outside of the PePiPoo forum on which it was originally posted additionally it must not be disclosed, copied, quoted, discussed, used or referred to by any person or organisation other than a member of PePiPoo appropriately paid up and in full compliance with the PePiPoo terms of use for the forum on which it was originally posted. The PePiPoo terms of use can be found at http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=boardrules. For the avoidance of doubt, if you are reading this material in any form other than an on-line HTML resource directly and legitimately accessed via a URL commencing "http://forums.pepipoo.com" then it has been obtained by improper means and you are probably reading it in breach of legal privilege. If the material you are reading does not include this notice then it has been obtained improperly and you are probably reading it in breach of legal privilege. Your attention is drawn to the Written Standards for the Conduct of Professional Work issued by the Bar Standards Board particularly under heading 7, "Documents".
Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader. |
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Sat, 16 Oct 2010 - 12:25
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,182 Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Member No.: 35,272 |
It could go the court route if the Police served a FPN.
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Sat, 16 Oct 2010 - 14:44
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,670 Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Member No.: 18,956 |
In what way do they not conform?
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Sun, 17 Oct 2010 - 15:51
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Member No.: 4,489 |
The ticket was issued by a police officer. I can go straight to court. The crossing is marked out with a white hatched area at two of the corners which are markings which are not permitted within or near the zig zags. The council have tried saying the white hatch areas are laybys and the zigzags enforce the no parking within the layby to the back of the layby but the definition of a layby is somewhere to park temporarily at the side of the road so why provide laybys and then make them no parking? its rubbish and the council know it. By challenging and winning they will have to repaint the crossing.
you can see the crossing on google streetview at crosby first school, frodingham road, scunthorpe. Court is tomorrow Monday at 10am. I'll let you know the result. |
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Sun, 17 Oct 2010 - 18:18
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,670 Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Member No.: 18,956 |
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sour...2,355.08,,0,4.9
Here? or, the other side of the crossing http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sour...2,12.92,,0,7.46 Did you park on the hatched area? This post has been edited by captain swoop: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 - 18:24 |
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Tue, 19 Oct 2010 - 19:40
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Member No.: 4,489 |
I parked on the zig zag line opposite the hatch area.
I have the legislation here from chapter 5 of Traffic signs Manual , Road markings 2003. Part 15 pedestrian Crossings. I also have the statutory instrument and drawings of all the signs and markings which are permitted within the controlled area. 15.25 The Pedestrian Crossings Regulations permit markings to diagrams 1029 (see paras 22.26 to 22.28 and diagram 6 in Schedule 4 of the Pedestrian Crossings Regulations) and 1062 to be used at or near a crossing. The use of diagram 1062 is described in paras 21.7 to 21.16. No other marking may be used within the controlled area, except hatched and chevron markings in the circumstances described in para 15.26. 15.26 The Pedestrian Crossings Regulations do not permit the use of central hatched or chevron markings within the controlled area of zebra crossings. Such markings may be used between a central double row of zig zags with Pelican, Puffin and Toucan crossings only in the following circumstances: The crossing is only a zebra crossing so no hatch areas are allowed. I also have the road markings policy document of my council where they state their commitment to the manual and following its guidance to the letter. I also have two other zebra crossings in town where there are hatch areas in the centre between two zig zags which contravenes the above. I think all this is sufficient to prove and win my case. |
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Tue, 19 Oct 2010 - 21:54
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,670 Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Member No.: 18,956 |
QUOTE 15.26 The Pedestrian Crossings Regulations do not permit the use of central hatched or chevron markings within the controlled area of zebra crossings. The hatchings at that crossing aren't central, they are outside the markings |
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Thu, 28 Oct 2010 - 17:53
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Member No.: 4,489 |
The white hatch areas still fall within the controlled area as the effect of the zig zags is supposed to be that no parking is allowed within said areas thus bringing them under control of the zig zags and thus within the controlled area.
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: Wednesday, 22nd May 2013 - 07:40 |
