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PCN, New on here and need a bit of help on forums on scottish PCN
miss_saltire
post Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 15:36
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I hope im doing this right please let me know if im not.

Received my very first parking ticket today,and really was shocked,I parked up in Glasgow city centre about 6-7 weeks ago (end of July) , bought my pay and display ticket, did my stuff came home all was well untill today when i got this im gutted i had no idea anyone had posted a "ticket" as there wasn't one there, for not clearly displaying pay and display ticket,which i definately had, it goes on to say unfortunately i have missed the chance to pay at the discounted rate of £30 which has now gone up to £60 as i havent paid in the estimated time!! if i dont pay within 14 days(i think thats what it means) maybe 28 i cant really understand it, it will go up a further 50% to £90... I don't have the ticket now ive searched high and low...will i have to pay for something i most definately did not do as ive lost the proof i had a ticket, or is there something i can do about it???



Not used to forums so please be patient with me many thanks
Missy

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post Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 15:36
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dave-o
post Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 16:00
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Was it a private ticket or council?

If private - ignore

If council - you can appeal that the ticket was never served, and demand proof of service.


--------------------
Dave-o 3-0 LB Waltham Forest.
Goalscorers: B. Alighting 08', G. Fettered 34', I. Markings 42'


Dave-o 2-0 LB Islington
Goalscorers: V. Locus 82', I. Dates, 87'
Dave-o 1-0 LB Redbridge
Goalscorer: I. Markings 79'


Dave-o 1-0 LB sCamden
Goalscorer: I. Dates, 86'

Dave-o 1-0 LB Hammersmith & Fulham
Goalscorer: T. Signage, 19'
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miss_saltire
post Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 16:29
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It was on council property ( E.g main street parking) but i think its a private company they have working for them. I'm so sorry if this doesnt make sense , to be honest i,m confused myself! is that a bit of both then??
i called them today and the lady said to send a letter of representations and i had to choose one of 6 grounds to state my case. and the one seems most appropriate is

The contravention did not occur....... does that sound OK

Thanks for helping
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dave-o
post Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 16:32
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No, the ground would be "Procedural impropriety". You would state that no PCN was served on your vehicle or to the driver. You will request a copy of the original PCN, photos showing the PCN attached to the vehicle and the CEO's notes.

It's possible that it's a dodgy CEO, and he punched in the ticket and threw away the PCN, or it's possible that a third party removed the ticket. Their evidence should identify which is the case.

This post has been edited by dave-o: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 16:32


--------------------
Dave-o 3-0 LB Waltham Forest.
Goalscorers: B. Alighting 08', G. Fettered 34', I. Markings 42'


Dave-o 2-0 LB Islington
Goalscorers: V. Locus 82', I. Dates, 87'
Dave-o 1-0 LB Redbridge
Goalscorer: I. Markings 79'


Dave-o 1-0 LB sCamden
Goalscorer: I. Dates, 86'

Dave-o 1-0 LB Hammersmith & Fulham
Goalscorer: T. Signage, 19'
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miss_saltire
post Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 16:43
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OK I'd have to write that in a letter, but i still have to tick one of the boxes on the letter

a...I was not the keeper of the vehicle at the time of the contravention

b...The contravention did not occur

c...The vehicle had been taken without my consent

d...The traffic order was invalid

e...we are a vehicle hire firm and have supplied hirer details

f...The penalty charge exceeded the relevant amount


These are the options i have to tick one of them there are little explanations under all of them,which do you think suits best? if you don't mind..You've been so helpful, thank you so much.
Can i ask whats a CEO, i'm sorry if thats stupid
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glasgow_bhoy
post Sat, 12 Sep 2009 - 00:11
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Civil Enforcement Officer. Pure scum usually.

Make sure you request a duplicate PCN from Glasgow in your appeal, as they MUST be able to produce an exact duplicate by law (esp. when it gets to adjudication) and glasgow seem unable to do this, coz theyre pure fannys really.

Where bouts in the city centre did this supposudly happen btw? Theres a few places where it wouldnt surpsise me if the PCN was bumped off the car by sum wee ned but wouldbt expect it in the busier parts.
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ssfoe
post Sat, 12 Sep 2009 - 00:49
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Who did you phone? Was it Glasgow Parking Services? If so it was a Council ticket. Please tell us.
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miss_saltire
post Sat, 12 Sep 2009 - 11:00
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It says on the letter Glasgow city council, the parking shop.

missed a bit sorry it was on Ingram street, i don't know the area at all, thats what it says on the letter though.
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ssfoe
post Sat, 12 Sep 2009 - 11:09
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It's a Council ticket from Mr Taggart. So no police involvement then.
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miss_saltire
post Sat, 12 Sep 2009 - 11:12
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No police that ive heard of...who's Mr Taggart? i dont live in Glasgow i was only taking my niece to the dental hospital, i was bricking it driving around, theres no way i would have left my car without paying for a display ticket! thanks for helping.
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Neil B
post Sat, 12 Sep 2009 - 11:21
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QUOTE (dave-o @ Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 17:32) *
No, the ground would be "Procedural impropriety". You would state that no PCN was served on your vehicle or to the driver. You will request a copy of the original PCN, photos showing the PCN attached to the vehicle and the CEO's notes.


Although under RTA 1991 there was no category of appeal of 'P.I.' we seem to have succesfully used it for other Glasgow PCNs in similar situations --- based on exactly how Dave describes the issue.


Without a relevant box to tick then --- 'no contravention' and 'penalty exceeded' would do for starters.

QUOTE (dave-o @ Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 17:32) *
It's possible that it's a dodgy CEO, and he punched in the ticket and threw away the PCN,

In Glasgow??? Surely not  biggrin.gif . Quelle surprise!

---------------


You need to show us ALL of the document so we can explain it to you. Past Glasgow ones are flawed but you are going to have to get your head around the points we make.

It is a bit worrying that you start by saying you don't really understand the deadlines already? That part, at least, will be written clearly. 



--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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miss_saltire
post Sat, 12 Sep 2009 - 12:21
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ok thanak you so much for that i'll go try now and download a pic of it both sides. should that be ok?
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miss_saltire
post Sat, 12 Sep 2009 - 12:56
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ssfoe
post Sat, 12 Sep 2009 - 13:29
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Right, this is exactly the same scenario as I had. No warning on the car until an NTO arrives. If it helps I took mine all the way to the adjudicator and won. Anyway, tick the one that says the contravention did not occur. Ask for a copy of the PCN, you won't get one but they will send you a computer printout. You will need this for the adjudicator. You have to make the point in your appeal that this is NOT a copy of the PCN, merely a computer printout that anyone can manufacture should they wish to do so.


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miss_saltire
post Sat, 12 Sep 2009 - 15:32
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Ok that sounds great i'll have a letter away on Monday thanks for all your help! great wee site this! biggrin.gif
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I am Weasel
post Mon, 14 Sep 2009 - 06:15
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Others may wish to comment, but Ithink there are also other issues with the ticket
  • Your grounds for appeal are fettered by the fact that you must provided a crime reference number and/or an insurance claim reference if the vehcile was taken without consent
  • They resume 7 days for postage & whilst some might argue that this is not unreasonable, they CANNOT make any such assumption
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miss_saltire
post Mon, 14 Sep 2009 - 16:40
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Thanks for that my car wasnt taken though by anyone it was me who was driving,my letter will be off tomorrow registered post, they will have it in plenty time! thanks again all for helping me,I'll let you guys know what happens when i get a reply!
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I am Weasel
post Mon, 14 Sep 2009 - 21:11
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QUOTE (miss_saltire @ Mon, 14 Sep 2009 - 17:40) *
Thanks for that my car wasnt taken though by anyone it was me who was driving,my letter will be off tomorrow registered post, they will have it in plenty time! thanks again all for helping me,I'll let you guys know what happens when i get a reply!


It doesn't actually matter whether the car was taken or not. I know, it took me a wjile to get my head round it too, but irrespective of the actual circumstances, the Council have limited your ability to use TWOC as a defence and therefore predjudiced you
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dave-o
post Tue, 15 Sep 2009 - 09:15
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I would appeal first that the PCN was never served, and demand proof of service:
-A copy of the original PCN
-Pictures of the PCN attached to the vehicle
-Copies of the CEO's notes.

Mention that the NTO is also invalid as it fetters your right to appeal under the Taking Without Consent ground by requiring it to be a crime.

Say that you will take yoru appeal to the adjudicator if it is not upheld at this stage.

Draft this, post it up here for us to check.


--------------------
Dave-o 3-0 LB Waltham Forest.
Goalscorers: B. Alighting 08', G. Fettered 34', I. Markings 42'


Dave-o 2-0 LB Islington
Goalscorers: V. Locus 82', I. Dates, 87'
Dave-o 1-0 LB Redbridge
Goalscorer: I. Markings 79'


Dave-o 1-0 LB sCamden
Goalscorer: I. Dates, 86'

Dave-o 1-0 LB Hammersmith & Fulham
Goalscorer: T. Signage, 19'
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miss_saltire
post Tue, 15 Sep 2009 - 20:58
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Thanks guys for all your help,but my letter is already on its way, i was running out of time huh.gif . I'll let you all know as soon as i hear what they say. Fingers crossed now.
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