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Court Summons, Speeding failing to notify who driver was
englewood
post Mon, 19 Jan 2009 - 21:19
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Hi,
Last May my lease car was photographed allegedly speeding. Can someone please advise me. It took over 14 days to receive my NIP the police said it took them that long because they had to contact the lease firm and then the large public department I work for. I wrote back stating I wasn't driving the vehicle they again sent another NIP, I again completed NIP and sent another letter stating that
  • Due to the medication I take I cannot remember if I have just taken my medicine (this is not a wind up I have to check my dispenser regularly) let alone remember who was driving my car weeks/months before
  • My lease agreement states if I am not using my car I must make it available to other users in my office for business purposes I am informed by the driver what the mileage is and I claim it back not the driver
  • My office diary shows I was not out the office that day
  • Unclear photo shows at least two possibly three in my car - I always work on my own
  • There are over 120 people in my office
  • I placed a notice throughout asking who was driving that day surprisingly nobody owned up
  • Since then anybody using my car must sign a statement that they were using the car on a particular date time frame
Again they wrote to me threatening that I would get summonsed if I did not cough - I wrote back in August/September re-iterating above. I finally recd a summons on 18 Dec dated 9 Dec for an appearance in a short time.

Please help.
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post Mon, 19 Jan 2009 - 21:19
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jobo
post Mon, 19 Jan 2009 - 21:51
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tricky

a lot depends on the terms of your lease as to whether you are the keeper or not, if other people have unfettered access to the car with out your express permission , then maybe not. this is important as your duties very enormously dependent on this point




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jobo

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Mr Smooth
post Mon, 19 Jan 2009 - 22:13
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Due to the medication I take I cannot remember if I have just taken my medicine (this is not a wind up I have to check my dispenser regularly) let alone remember who was driving my car weeks/months before

(You need to get a doctors statement or signed statement to confirm this. Anything regarding memory problems or a condition will help, but only if you can get corroboration).


My lease agreement states if I am not using my car I must make it available to other users in my office for business purposes

(Again if you can get a copy of this agreement this will help your case)

I am informed by the driver what the mileage is and I claim it back not the driver

(Did you notice any mileage difference or anybody claiming to have driven it this particular day, if not why not?. If it is usual not to be notified, you should make this point, and if not I would keep this quiet unless asked.)

My office diary shows I was not out the office that day

(This doesnt prove anything unfortunately, unless it was too far away from the camera site for you to be there outside the usual lunchtime time slot ie 11am -2pm)

Unclear photo shows at least two possibly three in my car - I always work on my own

(If it was around lunchtime, they could argue you were going to lunch with friends)

There are over 120 people in my office

(This doesnt prove anything unless you can prove how many could actually use AND be insured to use the car, and who could possibly have used it for business outside the office and be going somewhere near the camera site.)



I placed a notice throughout asking who was driving that day surprisingly nobody owned up

(Have you got the notice, and have you an idea who it could be?)


Since then anybody using my car must sign a statement that they were using the car on a particular date time frame

(Take the book or proof that this now happens)

Again they wrote to me threatening that I would get summonsed if I did not cough - I wrote back in August/September re-iterating above. I finally recd a summons on 18 Dec dated 9 Dec for an appearance in a short time.

You need as much proof as possible. All ive done is ask you what you could get asked. I had something similar a few years ago. I had use of a car to go home and back to work, and thats it. During the day it was used by anybody and everybody (ie not me!). I gave them time sheets, and a witness statement from a manager that I was supposed to be in the office juring office hours. He also stated that although he didnt know who was driving at the time, he knew it wasnt me, as I was getting a bollocking at the time. (I was!)

I got off.

Whatever you can get to show you have tried just get. The people on here will tell you whether its a good idea to use it.




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grayselegy
post Tue, 20 Jan 2009 - 14:29
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Hi. The point is that it appears you have tried everything to pinpoint who was the actual driver, but are unable to find out who it was. Thus you have fulfilled your duty and have a defence under S172. As the above post says, just take as much evidence as you can to Court with you to show what strenuous efforts you have made to find out who was driving (and why is wasn't you!). Good luck. Regards, Grays
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Chas820
post Tue, 20 Jan 2009 - 16:17
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What time of day was it?could you have been in a meeting?Where are the car keys kept?Have you asked police for a clearer picture?Do you have cctv on your car park?Just a few questions that need answering.
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englewood
post Thu, 19 Feb 2009 - 21:42
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Hi
I posted on here around 12 Jan asking advice about my forthcoming appearance at the magistrates court, firstly thanks to all who replied.
I duly attended and pleaded Not Guilty to S173(failing to notify who was driving my lease car). Whilst clerk was trying to phone to set up a trial date I informed the court that the CPS hadn't sent me a statement of evidence so I couldn't get a fair trial, during this the Prosecutor walked down to me pulled out a hazy photograph and said thats you. I protested to the court and him that he was trying to introduce evidence after I had pleaded not guilty and furthermore photo evidence should not be used under a S173 case - he denied he was trying to do this. The clerk set a new date and ordered the solicitor to produce to me a statement of evidence within 14 days all they have sent is a non disclosure of evidence about what is no longer getting used I still have not recd a proper statement of evidence. This is surely (a) contempt of court order (b) breach of due process. I am due soon at next hearing and after advice about how I can convince bench to throw out charge without me going through the stress of awaiting a new date. I do have blood pressue and heart difficulties.
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andy_foster
post Thu, 19 Feb 2009 - 21:56
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The statutory requirement to serve evidence on you is as soon as is reasonably practicable after a not guilty plea has been entered - so if you're having a go at the prosecutor for trying to disclose evidence after you have plead not guilty, it would seem that you have a unique interpretation of the law.


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Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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The Rookie
post Fri, 20 Feb 2009 - 01:26
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Agreed, you're way off the mark!

Simon


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

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